MINUTES

LAWTON CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING

MAY 27, 2004

WAYNE GILLEY CITY HALL COUNCIL CHAMBER

Mayor John P. Purcell, Jr.                Also Present:

Presiding                        Larry Mitchell, City Manager

                            John Vincent, City Attorney

                            Kathy Fanning, City Clerk

                            Col. G. Keith Herring, Fort Sill Liaison

                            

The meeting was called to order at 6:14 p.m. by Mayor Purcell.  Notice of meeting and agenda were posted on the City Hall notice board as required by law.

ROLL CALL

PRESENT:                Randy Bass, Ward One

                    *Rex Givens, Ward Two

                    Glenn Devine, Ward Three

                    *Amy Ewing-Holmstrom, Ward Four

        Robert Shanklin, Ward Five

        *Jeffrey Patton, Ward Six

        Stanley Haywood, Ward Seven

        Randy Warren, Ward Eight

ABSENT:    None

*Givens arrived at 6:18 p.m.

*Ewing-Holmstrom arrived at 6:35 p.m.

*Patton arrived at 6:36 p.m.

BUSINESS ITEMS:

1.    Discussion of Preliminary Budget; Departments to be determined.

Mitchell said he hopes to finish tonight all the remaining departments we need to review so we can proceed with putting together a preliminary picture for Council on the total budget requests.  He handed out the priority list from the Police Department as requested. Attached to that is a priority list provided by the Library Director, and the last attachment is a history of pay adjustments.  He said at least three Council members had requested the pay adjustment history.  The last two pages show the history for wage adjustments over the last ten years.  He said tonight we will start with the Fire Department, then follow with the Finance Department, and finish up  with the remaining administrative departments of the City.

Chief Hadley presented his budget requests.  He handed out a packet for Council's review. He said the letter is his initial budget request and covers most of the important supplemental requests he feels is needed in the Fire Department.  The budget itself was prepared as directed, at the same level as last year.  Since that time the Manager has added in some of the 200 accounts that were important to add in, such as fuel.  Primarily it was pretty much the same as directed.  There are some supplemental requests that were not included in the preliminary budget and he would like to focus on what they consider their priorities in the Fire Department.

Hadley read the section on Assistant Training Officer, which is their number one priority. This is the item they feel is the most important to the department this year.  Training is important in fire service, it is the life blood of fire service and there is a critical need now for some additional training assistance in their division.  The need for this addition has become even more critical as we approach the retirement date of the current Training Officer.  His scheduled retirement date is July 31, 2005.  The time frame required to obtain the required teaching certificates for a Training Officer is roughly two years.  One of the goals of the department is to provide some officer training.  They have always done a very good job in training fire fighters and apparatus drivers, but we have kind of left any supervisory and officer training pretty much to the individuals to gain on their own.  They feel the department will improve tremendously if they could get some officer training into the department.  This would be an impossible task without the addition of an Assistant Training Officer.  He said they feel this is very important to the future success of the department and would appreciate any strong consideration Council might give toward that end.

Hadley said the second request has to do with the replacement of two fire fighter positions lost last year.  

Hadley said on the Capital Outlay requests listed, he is not asking for the $76,000 be put in, but he just wants to make Council is aware that they have two stations that are in real need of having the roofs replaced.  He said it's his understanding the roof repair costs will be included in the CIP, therefore, would not need to be in the budget.  However, should those not be included or the CIP not pass, we are still going to be facing these needs, which are relatively expensive.

Mitchell said the roof replacement was on the initial list for the CIP, but it did not make the final list.  That will not be part of the CIP, but we did put in about $200,000 in the Building Maintenance fund to start looking at which buildings we need to start with for roof repairs.

Hadley said the other Capital Outlay item they are requesting is Thermal Imaging Cameras.  Currently their department has three.  This City bought the first one several years back and since then, as a fund raiser with the Junior Service League, been able to purchase two more.  They have just recently been notified that they were awarded a grant applied for which will give them one more.  If they could get three more, that would put one Thermal Imaging Camera at each station.

Bass asked if they had enough fire fighters for one of them to use it, or does someone have to come there to use it.  Hadley said they don't have enough man power on the initial arriving trucks to utilize that.  If we know, when we arrive, that someone is trapped inside, obviously life safety is the number one priority, they are not going to worry about putting the fire out, they are going to do search and rescue right away.  He said the first in company is assessing and pulling hose and getting ready.  When the backup company arrives they lay the water line in from the hydrants and those personnel help with secondary search and rescue.

Shanklin said he understood that Tulsa was going to take on ambulance service.  He asked if that has happened.  Hadley said he couldn't answer that for sure.  He said he didn't believe Tulsa has taken on the ambulance services.  There have been departments in the state that have taken this on.  Shanklin asked if they are making it successful. Hadley said it has just recently started and is successful, he believes it is, but if it's a break even proposition or it's making money, he's not sure.  Purcell said when he was going to NLC Conferences, he went to several meetings and the recommendation of those people is you don't have to give ambulance services to your fire department if you have a commercial company.  The only time you want to give that to your fire department is if you have no other options because it's an extra burden, it's not a break even and don't ever do it because you think you will make money.  That was the experience from other cities around the country.  Hadley said it depends on what you mean by break even or make money.  In one aspect we are supplementing the ambulance companies currently because we supplement them with man power and some equipment and first aid supplies.  He said about 65-70% of their calls are medical related and they make about 6,000 calls a year. Purcell said by the time you pay for the ambulances and the men to operate them and everything else, the money it costs is not recouped at all by what you can charge the people for the use of the ambulance, either through insurance or private pay.  In addition, you will have to supplement it for even more out of City funds.

Shanklin said he's been down on Ft. Sill Blvd. where the first responder was anywhere from three to nine minutes and then comes the ambulance.  He said one out of four times they leave the station is for a fire.  Hadley said for fire, hazardous materials, or other calls. Shanklin said they used to put out a list of all calls made every month.  Hadley said they still generate that and could forward that to the Council.  Shanklin said he would like to see one.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked what the limitations are of the first responders, the first initial fire units that get there.  

Hadley said they used to not have a minimum standard on the Lawton Fire Department other than having to have CPR and basic first aid training, but there was no certified minimum level.  The City negotiated with the union a few years ago to make EMT Basic as the minimum standard to be a fire fighter with the City of Lawton to reduce liability and provide better service.  It didn't really cost the City much additional money as far as the training.  We did almost all the training in-house.  The Emergency Medical Technician (EMTB) is the minimum standard.  We do have some fire fighters that have obtained certification at a higher level than that.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked if the EMTBs could administer IVs.  Hadley said no.  We do have some fire fighters that are trained that would be able to do IVs but that's not our minimum standard.  Basically you have to be EMT Intermediate, which is the next step up.  Assistant Fire Chief Gary Brooks said another way to look at that, on the additional fire fighters, is a lot of cities he has heard about it was just under break even.  A city the size of Lawton where you would add 8 to 9 fire fighters per shift, basically you're supplementing the cross trained as ambulance personnel and fire fighters.  You would be supplementing your response on fire runs at less than full value of the cost per fire fighter because the ambulance service is paying for part of that.

Hadley said in his supplemental budget request he asked for a total of eight additional fire fighters this year.  That would replace the two lost and two for each of the three shifts in addition.  That would bring some of their engine companies from a three man engine company level up to a four man level.  He said what Brooks was saying is exactly right, not only do you gain an advantage from the ambulance side, but all these people would be cross trained.  They would be dual role crossed trained fire fighters and EMT, so they would all rotate.  They would be on the ambulance some days and on the engine company some days.  They would have the training and certification to be able to respond to both. That way, if we had a major fire, rather than going short and having to wait for backup from across town and leaving that side of town uncovered, we would have additional people close by, which would give us additional fire fighters at the fire scene much quicker.  He said the budget summary sheet shows they lost two fire lieutenants rather than two fire fighters and the preliminary budget indicates the same thing.  They have actually lost two fire fighters and not two lieutenants.  They had fire fighters on the engine company and brush truck and that is where the positions were lost.  If they decide not to put the two fire fighters back into the budget this year, he would request the preliminary budget be amended so instead of 22 lieutenants and 45 fire fighters, it would be corrected to show 24 lieutenants and 43 fire fighters.  Mitchell asked if he wanted to trade two lieutenants for two fire fighters.  Hadley said he would rather just get the two lieutenants back, but if they are not added in, that's what he is asking.  

Hadley said they don't really have any formal replacement schedule for apparatus on the fire department.  They are starting to get behind, obviously because of the budget problems they've had the last two years.  They did purchase a pumper they just completed paying off in this current year's budget, it was a three year lease.  In the preliminary budget they have a similar item and it will take another three years.  They have ten high dollar pieces of equipment in the fire department, not counting their airport units.  They have seven engine companies in the seven stations and these are front line pieces of equipment.  They have two quints (aerial devices) and one heavy rescue truck.  The quints themselves are in the neighborhood of $800,000 each.  The engine companies are about a third of that, about $250,000 each.  It is recommended they be replaced, they go to a reserve status between 10-15 years of age and then be completely removed from the department somewhere between 15-20 years.  It has been recommended in the 2020 Fire Protection Plan and it's been their standard practice that they hold onto them longer than that and get more use out of them, but at 20 years, they feel they should be put to pasture. With ten units, and they are replacing one every other year, on a very consistent basis, as they buy a new truck, they are putting one out that is 20 years old.  They are only replacing equipment that is 20 years old in this department.  That's if they are replacing every other year.  When they fall into hard times as we have recently, then they are going three or four years between purchases, that starts to get them behind.  If they did that on a consistent basis, they would have fire trucks that were 30 and 40 years old in the department and he doesn't think anybody wants that and he certainly doesn't.  Looking at the cost of equipment today and looking at the age of the equipment they currently have, including what they have this year, if they put $250,000 in every year into the fire department budget for just rolling stock, just to replace these ten, it would take 10-13 years before they would actually start gaining ground and be able to slow down.  It would be the 12 ^th or 13^th year before they would start replacing equipment that was less than 20 years old.  It's not an additional request this year, but he does want to make Council aware this is something they are going to have to look at maybe this coming year or certainly in the years to come.  

Ewing-Holmstrom said she heard the Fire Training Officer will be retiring in about a year.  She asked what they would do if they did not get the money to get an Assistant Training Officer.  She asked what their options were.

Hadley said they may have to look at trying to reorganize one of the other divisions and come to the City Manager with a request to reclassify somebody, basically steal somebody from one of the other divisions to move into that division.  He said he doesn't know of any grants out there that would help with this type of thing.  They are seeking grants.  Just a few years ago, when he first moved into the administration position, they applied for the first grant the Lawton Fire Department ever received.  This was the first national grant program that was available to the fire department.  Since that time, with September 11 ^th and Homeland Security issues there is a lot more grants.  They have applied for a number of grants and have been very successful.  Lawton is the only city in the State of Oklahoma that has actually been awarded a Fire Act Grant the first three years of this grant's existence.  Other cities don't get it every year and part of that speaks to the needs we had at the time and the personnel that filled out the application.

Purcell said he would like to request we look at Edmond, Enid, Broken Arrow, and Norman and see if we can find out what is the percent of their operating budget that goes for fire services.  Also, the percent of the fire department budget that is for personnel costs versus operating.  He said he wants to see how we compare to other cities.

Warren said we used to have a green sheet listing of every vehicle in the city.  Mitchell said we have a vehicle inventory, but he doesn't believe we have a scheduled replacement program.  Purcell said it wasn't a replacement program, it was just the inventory of all rolling stock that showed where the vehicle was located, what it was called, the year it was purchased, and something on it about mileage and maybe some other things on it. Mitchell said we did provide Council with an inventory about a month ago.  Endicott said there is a green bar sheet that shows, how much the purchase price was and how much mileage, etc.  Warren asked if we could find that list or do a new one, when a vehicle should be replaced, then when we go to do the budget for that year, we would have an idea, not just in fire, but in every department.  Mitchell said the department directors do that when they present their preliminary budget to the Manager.  They have some idea of what their replacement needs are.  Most of them try to replace their oldest equipment first.

Endicott announced that he is a brand new Dad as of last Friday at 1:30 p.m.

Endicott referred to page 39 of the budget on the Finance Department.  The Finance Department consists of Finance Administration, Revenue Services, Financial Services, the City At Large Budget, and the Waurika Budget.  In this budget they are proposing to add Management Information Systems to the Finance Department.  He referred next to page 40-41 on Finance Administration.  The budget for them is basically the same as last year, with the exception of a couple items.  One is the increased audit costs.  They anticipate their audit cost to be substantially higher.  In the past, the cost for audit hasn't truly been reflected in what they should have been for the services we feel we should be getting.  He said auditors are being held accountable for a lot more these days than they have in the past.  With some of the independent standards that have been placed on them, there are only certain things they can do and a lot of things they can't do in the consulting realm.  

Shanklin asked what he meant by being more accountable.

Endicott said once Enron happened that changed the entire accounting and auditing world.  He said auditors are being watched a lot closer now than what they were in the past.  Mitchell said they have a new reporting requirement under GADSBY 34, which requires a different process for auditing.  Endicott said last year was our first year under GADSBY 34 guidelines and the reporting requirements have changed the way the whole document is put together.  

Endicott said the next item is training and travel and the Finance Division has never really had a training budget.  It has been around $400 and feels with all the changes going on, they need this.

Patton asked what kind of training can he utilize.  Endicott said he just went to a training in Lubbock, Texas a couple weeks ago at the Southwest Finance School.  They bring instructors in from all around the country.  There was about five different tracks, such as investment, accounting, the GADSBY issue, and all different tracks.  That was a three and a half day school and that was $1,000.  He would like to go to at least one GFOA Conference every other year, just to get that training.  That hasn't been available to the Finance Director in the past.  He feels it's valuable that we try to stay on top of issues that are out there and meet other cities and visit with them and see what they are doing.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked about the training of staff.  Endicott said he has a secretary and will get to the others, such as the accounting, later.  They have their training in their individual division budgets.

Bass said vehicles are not called rolling stock any more, it's all capital outlay.  

Endicott said for budget purposes, they call everything capital outlay.  That's one of the reasons they break it out now in the front of the budget and show you rolling stock and all others.  For simplicity purposes, they call everything capital outlay.  Basically, their definition of capital outlay is anything over $500 with the life span of a year or greater. He said the capital outlay in the admin. portion is 1/3 of a vehicle that we are going to share with the City Manager's office, the City Attorney's office and the Finance Department and each have $8,000 in their budget to cover the cost of that vehicle.

Mitchell said we are also hoping to look at a hybrid vehicle.  This vehicle would be available for all three departments to use, but it would be primarily used locally, so they are hoping they might be able to get into a hybrid vehicle.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked about the increase of $11,000 in account 101.

Endicott said part of that 02-03 is the previous Finance Director retired early in the year. Livingston retired in July and he came on board in September.  There is about a two month vacancy in there.  The secretarial position was vacant also.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked about the insurance in account 251.

Endicott said several months ago they brought an investment policy to the Council, which was adopted.  The Investment Committee also recommended this policy and in that is a requirement that anybody involved in the investment process be bonded.  Up until now, the only person really bonded was the Finance Director.  This cost will cover four people involved in the investment process of actually getting an investment done.  The Finance Director, the Financial Supervisor, the Accountant, and his secretary is involved in this process.  They have that many people involved in the process for security reasons.  For example:  when accounting goes out and gets bids for an investment and they want to make that investment, he gives approval or disapproval and once the investment is approved the wire transfer is actually done through his secretary who has a code he doesn't even know and doesn't want to know, so it is a separation of duties from the accounting side.  The accounting side is not doing everything this way.  This is standard policy with other cities.  The bond is for $1 million.

Endicott referred to page 42-43 in the budget.  He said they are asking Council to approve one position, called Office Supervisor, which he considers to be a floor manager.  At one time there was a supervisor on the floor and that position was lost sometime ago.  Barbara Curran is the Supervisor in this division and she does not have time to oversee the actual day to day activities out on the floor because she is dealing with many issues.  There are too many things, too many interruptions during a day, so they are asking this position be added this year to provide some relief.  This position would be a dual functioning position; a supervisor, but a working supervisor that if they were short handed they could take over and do the cash functions of any of the others.  He said if he had a priority over anything, this position would be it.  They need additional people out there also, but like everything else, there are only so many dollars.  In all of his divisions he is not asking for anything additional, other than what's in the preliminary budget.  They are adding to the Capital Outlay repairs of the drive through window, which is desperately needed.  

Ewing-Holmstrom asked about account 216.

Endicott said that is uniform and clothing.  He said the city is right now looking at trying to consolidate all the uniform and clothing.  They have gone out for RFPs to do a rental and lease program.  Currently they have a hodge podge method of clothing the employees.  He said the Assistant City Manager, himself, Laura Smith, and the purchasing staff have been working the last several months to put together this RFP, which will be brought before Council Tuesday night.  They believe they can clothe all the employees that need to be clothed.  There are people, as you look around, that have clothing that don't need or require it.  They have tried to narrow everything down to the essential people who need to be clothed.  They have taken everybody's uniform and clothing out of their budget and put it in City At Large so the cost can be more controlled. It has gotten a little out of hand.

Ewing-Holmstrom said she was glad they were doing that.  She said she is against embroidering T-shirts business or putting a patch on a t-shirt, that doesn't make any sense. The t-shirts we see Public Works employees wearing with the City patch sewn or embroidered on is not very cost effective because the patch is worth more than the shirt and that should be heat sealed and there are good heat sealers, you've just got to find a good one.

Endicott referred to pages 44-45 in the budget on Financial Services.  He said this is the accounting and purchasing area.  These employees do a lot with very little and they are increasing their budget in the Capital Outlay area to provide for computers that are several years old and need replacing and a laser printer.  He said this will be seen in both his budget and the accounting budget in the Financial Services Division for a laser printer.  They do a lot of printing and they need good decent printers.  He said within this division, the Professional/Technical Services, there is a $12,000 item which is for an outside consultant for professional advice.  Mike Crawford has provided them with a multitude of professional advice and Endicott has put a few thousand dollars in there, instead of training, they want to use him in this area.  They have also put a little more money in for training.

Patton said it looks like in travel and training, we budgeted for $2,000 in 03-04 and the actual expenditures is $500.  He asked if this means there will be a $1,500 carry over. Endicott said that is a little low because he used some of there money to go to the Lubbock School.  Patton said we are going to add $1,862 on top of whatever that carry over is.  Endicott said no, the carry over is reflected with these numbers.

Givens asked about the three computers.  We haven't talked about this, but we should put all the computers together and go out and see if we can get a much better price.  Endicott said they could do a lot better than $2,600.   Givens said, as many as we are getting anyway, you would think somebody would give a better price.  

Purcell said when David gets up here we need to ask him because he sent an email and has a good explanation and can tell us.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked about the print shop helper/courier.  She asked what this person does.  Endicott said she helps design brochures and does a lot of copy work.

Endicott said they are proposing MIS be moved to the Finance Division.  He said he plans on sitting down with David and Cindy and strategize what they are going to do over the next year.  He said the budget before Council is the budget Doug Wells presented and David and Cindy are much more capable to answer any questions you may have.  He said with Council's approval he intends on hiring a Supervisor that is technical and goal oriented and he believes it is really necessary to do that.  He said they need that position. David and Cindy could talk about their capital outlay and personnel needs a little better than him.

Bass asked if Endicott was going to try to hire the Supervisor in house or go outside.

Endicott said he would like to go with the most qualified they can get.

Purcell asked David Wood to explain about the computer costs.

Wood said computers and software staff uses doesn't get used like the average person at home.  They have people, like Engineering, who are running high applications such as Auto CAD, Eagle Point , graphic intensity for maps, which requires a high powered computer with a lot of memory and a large display.  What he does during the budget process is get an average price for a high end computer and a mid end computer and sends that out to everybody letting them know this is what you can get for approximately this price.

Givens asked if the $2,600 is the high end.  

Wood said yes, that's the high end price.

Givens said everybody wants the high end is what he sees.

Wood said generally they funnel the orders through him and he will talk to them asking what their needs are and generally, most of the time we don't spend that much.

Givens said in this budget, so far, has been $2,600.  Purcell said that was used for budget purposes, that was a standard throughout the budget, but when they come back to purchase them, everyone they purchase is not going to be $2,600.  Givens said Wood stated he gave a low end and a high end and for budget purposes it looks to him like there should be some low ends in here.

Endicott said when they were trying to put the preliminary together they had numbers at $2,300, $2,800, and some at $3,000, they had this mix of numbers so he recommended to the City Manager, just for presentation purposes, that we use a number somewhere in between.  He said he feels the $2,600 number is high when you look at all the computers we are going to buy, but for the final budget, his personal recommendation is we lower that number for every computer by $300 or $400 and it will average itself out over the year.  There are going to be some computers that will be $2,800 and some that will be a lot less than that.  Givens said he understands that perfectly but everyone he has seen in here so far has been $2,600 each and Wood just got through saying he gave people some low end and high end prices.  He only sees one figure.  Ewing-Holmstrom said his perception is that every computer, just from the budget book, is $2,600.

Mitchell said it was their attempt to try to simplify this process and obviously they made the wrong decision because they thought they would have exactly the opposite argument if they put in $1,800 in one department and $3,200 in the next department, asking why one department is buying something for $3,200 and another department can get it for $1,800.  We just made a bad decision.  We are having the same discussion, it's just a different format.  Our intention is not to buy everyone a $2,600 computer.

Shanklin asked how many computers we are buying this year.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked what was done with the old computers.

Wood said we hand them down to ones who have older computers.

Bass asked if all the computers would be the same type.

Wood said not necessarily.  What he generally will do is look at certain vendors and others on the State Contract and what the price is for computers.

Givens asked if we have to use the State Contract.

Wood said we don't have to use the State Contract.

Endicott said that is one of the policies we need to talk about as we go forward into next year, is how we want to handle that.

Givens said not only that but you've got all these computers that you have on the CIP for $3 million set aside for computer stuff.  That, lumped with all of this, you should be able to go out somewhere and get a better price.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked if there weren't companies that focus on corporate programs or systems.  She asked if there was someone who could help them find the system best for us.

Endicott said they have been visiting with vendors and they have been coming in and showing us a lot of software and giving us other cities who have used their software and hardware.  It's a misnomer that $3 million, we are looking at a city wide program that will interface and departments will be able to entertain information like we have never done before.  When we are looking at that $3 million number, we are looking at almost every department in the City at revamping and some don't even have access to information that would be helpful to them.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked if we had a city wide network that works.

Endicott said yes, but he is talking about the City Manager being able to sit at his desk and obtain needed information.  He said what is out there today is a lot more sophisticated than where we are in the City today.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked how many years we are behind the time in some of our systems. Endicott said he thinks we are ten years behind.

Ewing-Holmstrom said it's moving really fast and that's the problem.  You spend the money but you have to turn around and spend it again five years from now because everything is moving so fast.

Purcell said when you get some of the computers we have around here that people are using, if all you want to do is write letters and do some simple Excel Spreadsheets, they are probably ok, but when you get anything above that, some of those computers we have people using, the only thing they are good for is a paper weight.  That's the problem and that's always going to happen because in three years the ones we buy will be slow as molasses and won't do the stuff we need them to.  It's a continuous problem.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked about account 310, the lease purchase of the HP 3000 and asked what that was.

Wood said it's the continuation of a lease purchase that was made several years ago for the computer down in the computer room that runs Financial, Payroll, Accounting, and Revenue Services.  It is made by Hewlett Packard.  Back in 1983 the City had a Honeywell computer they were running Payroll and Revenue Services on and that system was converted to run on the Hewlett Packard platform which was a great platform for many years.  A lot of things have been added to those systems over the years by the programming staff.  About a year and a half ago Hewlett Packard announced that in 2006 they are not supporting this kind of computer anymore.

Ewing-Holmstrom said we pay our $51,000 and asked what happens next year.  Endicott said in 2006 you're on your own.

Ewing-Holmstrom said you are going to have to either invest, lease, or purchase in a whole new system that is going to replace this HP 3000.  She asked if this system was 21 years old.

Wood said no, it's been upgraded and replaced several times.  Cindy Price said this is the last year on that lease and what is ending is the operating support on that system.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked what the $51,000 does.

Price said Payroll, Accounting, Human Resources, Legal, Arts and Humanities, and all the major financial systems.  Endicott said it's actually the lease purchase, but it takes that and higher staff to update it.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked about the overtime and what's it was from.  Endicott said periodically Wood and Price or other staff, get called in the middle of the night if the Police Program is down or E911 needs help.  Price said our Programmer Analyst, Wood, and herself all rotate on an on-call basis.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked if the three were it and wasn't there somebody further on down the chain that could actually do that.

Price said yes and they do and that is part of what that overtime is for.  They are a 24 by 7, so they have a person who is on-call on a two week basis and that rotates with six of them doing that.  That's to come in and do the Saturday operations, the backup, and so forth and also available for those critical calls at 2:00 and 3:00 in the morning.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked if they had someone employed who comes in on Saturday. Price said that is the on-call person.  

Ewing-Holmstrom asked if they are on overtime when they come in on Saturdays to do backups.  Price said that is correct.

Endicott said that is currently the way it works.  He said he just got a note and there is about 36 computers to be purchased.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked how many computers we have throughout the City.  Wood said a little over 400.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked how many employees does the City of Lawton have.  Mitchell said 787.  Endicott said 815 in the proposal.

Ewing-Holmstrom said we are talking about replacing 36 computers in this year's budget, there is 400 overall, so we are talking about a turnover.  She asked how many were replaced last year.  Wood said he didn't have that number with him but could find out. Last year it was probably a third.  Mitchell said it was probably less than ten last year. Remember the year before we froze capital outlay and last year we basically shut it down because of our budget situation.  This year we probably picked it up a little bit, but that's part of why you are seeing 36 this year because we haven't allowed that many purchases over the last couple of years.  We did upgrade some printers and maybe some screens.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked what were the chances of ever having self-pay water bills.  It seems like we have an awful long line and someone could scan their bill and run the credit card or run a check through.  Endicott said that is part of the thing they are looking at in the CIP.  They want to automate that function, to do that scanning.  You get into some credit card issues because the credit card companies charge us fees and legally he doesn't believe we can do that.  We would have to absorb that if that is the service Council would like to provide.

Vincent said for example:  it took special legislation from Municipal Court to take credit cards for payment of fines and the legislation requires the person using the card pay the 5% fee, not to exceed $5.00, but it took legislation to do that.

Endicott referred to page 49 of the budget.  He said this is how much we have budgeted to cover all uniform and clothing for the year, it doesn't mean we are going to spend that. Ewing-Holmstrom asked about a list of all the departments that currently get clothes and all the departments he is proposing to have clothes.  Endicott said certainly he would get that list.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked what the big jump in insurance was from.  Endicott said he believed there was an error there.  Smith said the 93 is an error.   She said they got a bunch of bills after they did this in January.  Ewing-Holmstrom asked Smith if this was prepared in January.  Smith said yes.  Purcell said it takes awhile to get this done to get it to us in May.  Endicott said they start in January.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked about the other expenses of $797,000, account 297, Other Reserve.  Endicott said that is the reserve we set aside for any decision Council makes regarding employee issues.  Purcell said part of that is the $714,000 he put in there for employee things.  Endicott said for any wage adjustments, union contracts, etc.

Bass said back on the Supervisor position, in MIS, the pay scale is an MG10, so you could actually bring somebody up to MG10 and hire a Computer Operator.  He asked if that is how it works.  Endicott said yes.  Mitchell said to keep in mind that Wells was doing both MIS and Communications, so we have eliminated his position and put a Supervisor in MIS and a Supervisor in Communications.  We have added one position but took away Wells' old position.  

Endicott said it is pretty much the same as it was last year.

Purcell asked if there was enough in the budget for training in case every Council member wanted to go to the National League of Cities Conference this year.

Ewing-Holmstrom said her and Devine were discussing bringing an item to Council.  She asked if they brought back an item to increase salary for Mayor and Council how will that effect this number.  She asked if they would have to review this item again.

Purcell said to remember all these things we are telling the Manager to increase is all wonderful and we haven't even addressed some real big items.  It is real neat when Council adds all these things on and we wind up with $2 million more of adds, then Council can't just tell the Manager that now it's his problem.  Council will have to come up with $2 million worth of drops somewhere.  It's a zero sum game.

Devine said he didn't know how many years it's been since this Council has had an increase.  People are not really aware of the hours they spend, but if you realize they get paid $106 bi-weekly, that's $212 a month and it doesn't even cover it.  Givens said 30 years ago Council was making $3,000 a year, it was the initial amount that was started in the Charter which was about 35 years ago.  Devine said that's what we're making now. He said that has not changed and he's not asking it be changed now, but in the future, that needs to be looked at real seriously.  He said we're in a crunch now and is not asking that be done now.  He said in 30-35 years it hasn't changed and he thinks the Council deserves more than what they get because the expenses for going to meetings they need to attend, all the committees they're on, and all the things they have to do.  They have to eat out sometimes and travel.  It would almost be worth asking the people and put it to the vote of the citizens.   Purcell said you have two options; you can either bring it up and try to get it in this budget or you can wait and bring it up sometime in the next six months so he winds up putting into next year's budget if the Council approves it.  He asked Devine which way he wanted to go.  Devine said we will work on it.  He said Mitchell told him he could show us a way to do it with no problem.  Devine said to show him.

Purcell said if that is the consensus of the Council, let Vincent bring it back a week from tonight and we will discuss it and if that's what the Council wants and they want to vote on it, tell the Manager to stick it in this budget.  He said you have to have the understanding of how it works before you start voting.

Vincent said the question is what mechanism do we use to get there.

Ewing-Holmstrom said because she works full time she doesn't like to use her work phone to return calls to people, so she prefers to use her cell phone.  She has a pretty expensive cell phone bill and while she was Mayor Pro Tem, the amount of gas she was using going to events.  Being on Council is pretty expensive and $212 just about covers her cell phone bill.  

Patton asked Givens if the $3,000 was incorporated before they went to a City Manager form.  Givens said when the Charter came in to effect and it has never been changed.

Patton said when he ran for office he didn't realize it was a paid position.  He said he ran for it because he wanted to volunteer his time and make a difference.  He said when he did, it was because he wanted to be a part of City Government and feels that everyone made a decision to run for office, we knew it was going to take a lot of time out of our schedule, and we ran for it and volunteered for it.  He thinks $200 a month is more than fair.

Warren said he has always thought Council was a little underpaid because by the time you do pay for a cell phone or another line at your house and all the other things.  It's a pretty break even deal, but what concerns him is he doesn't need that money, but it does preclude some people from being able to do this.  There are people out there that won't run for City Council because they don't have the money for the extras and they are basically precluded from doing this because of that.  He said there probably is a need for a raise of some kind.

Bass said he had a woman once tell him he knew what he was getting paid when he ran and that's exactly what this is.  It's about time and service to your community.

Purcell asked what was the consensus of the Council.  Do you want to consider it and bring it back in one week and decide?

Warren asked if we could get a general idea of how much money we are talking about.

Devine said he wanted to withdraw his name from the suggestion.  He said he didn't know he was going to cause such a turmoil.  He didn't come onto the Council for the money, he came to help the citizens and try to do the best possible job he could for every citizen that calls him.  He said he wouldn't do anything in the world to offend any one of them.  If it would offend them by asking for a little raise, he wouldn't want to do it at all.

Ewing-Holmstrom said it's all about donating your time and she use to donate her time all the time to the American Cancer Society and can't do that now because her time is consumed taking care of phone calls that this very Council has caused.  When you decide you want Nine Mile Creek, her phone goes off the hook because she lives on the east side.  She said when you all decided we need to buy this parcel of land or another, it's her phone that rings off the hook.  When Council decides what is best for the east side, her phone rings off the hook.  She is sure everybody else's does too for the hot dead issues that go on in all their wards.  She didn't know anything about the money when she first started either, but she didn't know she was going to be driving all over the place, that her cell phone number was going to be out and about, and she was going to be on the phone as much, in her car and at work, to avoid using her work phone and giving her work phone number out.  She is not paid by her employers to be a City Council person. It costs money to be on City Council for some of us.

Bass suggested the City furnish cell phones to the Council members.  Ewing-Holmstrom said that would be outstanding.

Purcell said that may be a good idea.  He asked if Council wants Vincent to come back on Thursday with what the mechanism is because you want to support doing the raise.  He then took a vote of hands from the Council with Ewing-Holmstrom being the only aye vote.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked if they could further discuss cell phones.

Bass said he believes everybody does get a lot of phone calls, no matter what ward and if the phone causes a problem and you can't call them back, you can get cell phones furnished by the City.  He thinks it would help tremendously.

Purcell said the Manager tells him in this budget, without adding anything extra to it, he probably has enough money to give every Council member a cell phone and the City pay for it.  He asked for a motion if this is what Council wants.

Purcell said any Council member who wants a cell phone to please let the City Manager know and he will provide you with one and it is in the budget.

Buckley said we have a City wide plan and so it is actually coordinated for sharing lines.

Purcell asked for Council to discuss a gas allowance.

Ewing-Holmstrom said they should consider a gas allowance, especially now that gas is $1.89 and some places $1.95 for gas.  

Vincent said he has to look at the Charter, he is positive on the cell phones but he has to look at in-town expenses for Council members.  You can pass it that we look at it if that is what you want to do, until he can get a report back on in-town expenses for Council members.

Purcell said that motion is contingent upon approval and it being legal.  He asked Ewing-Holmstrom if she would amend her motion.

Devine withdrew his motion.

Mitchell referred to pages 20-21 in the budget.  

Warren mentioned laptops and asked if we need to talk about that now.

Mitchell said he thinks that discussion should occur after the CIP.

Mitchell referred to the handout given to Council describing changes in their budget for the coming year.  The difference between this year and last year is about $7,000.  He said they are proposing to put $8,000 in their Capital Outlay budget to cost-share in the purchase of a vehicle which will be used by Finance, City Manager, and the City Attorney's office.  They have increased travel and training because we now have an Assistant City Manager and it's very important to adequately provide training he needs to continue his work.  

Devine asked if the Mayor was going to use the City's vehicle.  Purcell said he is using it, but not using it like it was used before.  He uses it for City business and proposes, with the City Manager's permission, switch cars because he doesn't need as large a vehicle. Shanklin said Purcell should be seen in the Mayor's car with the insignia on it.  All Mayors have used a vehicle and so should Purcell.  He said when seen in the vehicle it means there's the Mayor of the City of Lawton.  Warren suggested looking at an electric vehicle since he wants a smaller car.  Purcell said that's what the Manager is looking into.

Givens said he thinks it's very admirable on Purcell's part.

Mitchell referred to pages 27, 28, and 29 of the budget on Auditing.

Buckley said the preliminary budget shows a difference of about $6,509 which represents an increase in salary and wages with the new Internal Auditor.  We have not had an Internal Auditor for several years.  They also increased their Contractual Maintenance and provided for the Internal Auditor to do some travel and training to stay current with regards to auditing practices.

Ewing-Holmstrom said you got rid of your Auditing Director and your Staff Auditor, you added an Internal Auditor and your budget went up $24,000.  Mitchell said there was no auditing department last year.  Ewing-Holmstrom asked where was this Auditing Director.  Was he in Finance?  Mitchell said the Auditing Director was in the budget two years ago.  We had an Auditing Department and when Endicott moved over to the Finance Director's position, we did not fill that position.  When Barbara Curran moved over to Revenue Services, we didn't fill that position.

Buckley said Ha Vu is the Audit Technician and we hired the Internal Auditor, Pam Breland.

Fanning referred to page 17 in the budget.  She said their last three budgets have progressively decreased until this year.  Last year the lease purchase of the postage machine was paid off.  This year's budget will increase a little bit.  There are five different items she would like to request.  The Supplemental Request on page E-1, shows an increase in training.  Last year's budget was only $384, just the bare minimum training for the previous City Clerk.  This year we have two people needing training.  She requested $900 to be able to go to the OML training instead of the IIMC for this year because of budget constraints and being short handed.  The Election Expense has been increased an additional $8,000, for a total of $22,000.  Next year we have the CIP Election and a Municipal Election and we need to keep some back for any other unexpected election that might come up.

Patton asked how much does an election cost roughly.  Fanning said this last one was Mayoral so it was more than our usual and ran around $14,000.

Patton asked if we shouldn't have a filing fee.  Vincent said there is a State Statute that says Municipal Elections cannot have a filing fee.

Devine asked if she had asked for a Senior Secretary.  Fanning said we reclassed the second Deputy City Clerk down to a Senior Secretary.  Right now we still do not have a full staff because we don't know the outcome yet of the Deputy City Clerk who is out on extended sick leave.  Devine asked if she was working with only one full time employee. Fanning said yes, until about three days ago she received approval from the City Manager for a temporary worker.  She said that is one thing Council will not see in the Supplemental Budget and she would like to request funding for temporary services until the Deputy can return or we know what is going to happen.  Purcell said it's covered because we are not paying the other salary.  At a point in time we will stop paying the other salary.  Mitchell said we are paying her sick leave and annual leave right now. Purcell said yes, but once that runs out there should be enough money in there.  He said the Manager says we are ok with those three employees and the temp.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked what type of postal equipment was used.  She asked how much of that is telephone.  Fanning said right now they have a very antique system so they pay a very minimum on phone and that is why they are needing a new phone system.  They don't have the ability to put anyone on hold and that's why it sometimes takes so long to answer.  She said when the phones ring they have to put one phone down, run to the next room and answer the next call.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked why we didn't have a City-wide phone system that works in every department.  Warren said we have been here before and it was really bad.  It turned into the biggest mess because we are so spread out, in order to make it work, it was a mess.  Ewing-Holmstrom asked about just in this building and why is there a separate phone system.  Fanning said Perkins suggested for her to piggy-back off of Planning's phone system and that would save a lot.  She is requesting only $800, otherwise it would be over $3,200 to get their own system.  Purcell said it is already in the budget.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked how much of the $5,600 in Postage and Phones is the rental for their postage machine.  Fanning said the only rental we pay is when we reset the postage machine.  Ewing-Holmstrom asked who they go through for postage.  Fanning said the use Pitney Bowes.  Ewing-Holmstrom asked if she had ever heard of Postage.com. Fanning said no she had not.  Ewing-Holmstrom said they just got rid of their Pitney Bowes because it costs so much.  She suggested looking into that for next year's budget.  

Fanning said the next request was for three computers.  She said according to MIS their computers do need upgraded or replaced.

Purcell said the Manager tells me the phone system is covered, even though it's showing up in their book on page F-1 as additional, he has covered it in this initial budget.  He said what's not covered in the budget in front of them is the three computers.

Vincent referred to the handout he gave to Council.  He said the 200 account revision are numbers not included in their budget, but were included in the supplemental appropriation when Council gave us that in January this year.  These are driven by increased costs at the Court House.  He said the $2,900 is for a program called AMICUS. They have deferred upgrading that program for two years because of budget problems. This program is their computer software they use to manage their case loads and they have been notified by the AMICUS Company if they don't upgrade in February they will drop them.  This is the upgrade cost.  He said account 221, Rental, Publication, and Printing was asked for in the original budget and was dropped by mistake and this is a Statutory requirement that we upgrade our Code Book every ten years and we are required to upgrade it next year.  He said in Professional and Technical Services the estimated expenditures for this year is $159,000 and the proposed budget is $60,000.  The majority of the difference in that was on dilapidated buildings.  The Manager has asked that we do not increase that to include dilapidated building lawsuits.  The $5,500 is the increased filing fees just for the normal lawsuits.  If we continue the dilapidated program, we'll absorb it into this account and come back in January or February and tell you where we are and if we need a supplement, we will ask for it at that time.  

Vincent gave a report to Council on dilapidated buildings.  He said so far this fiscal year, since July 1 ^st, we have filed 24 lawsuits and have six more in process and will be filed before the 15^th of June, so we will have filed 30 lawsuits on dilapidated buildings in this calendar year.  They run somewhere between $500 to $1,000 each.

Vincent said the $3,790 in Dues and Membership is the increased cost they have been notified by their publishing company, West Publishing, of the law book cost.  He said they have reduced their library as far as they can go and rely on the internet as much as they can.  They have gone from three sets of Oklahoma Statues down to one and keep one current set of the United States Code.  

Vincent said they have talked with the Manager and Endicott and the adjustments come to $23,150 and that is well below what the supplemental budget was in those same accounts.  He asked that those be put back.  He said the Manager and Endicott said they would do that.

Vincent said in the 100 accounts, an additional $19,234 is to increase their part time person to a full time staff position.  He said there is a possibility that the Workers' Compensation Administration will be transferred to Legal from the Human Resources Department.  If that were to take place, it would not happen until September.

Shanklin asked about the salary for a Legal Secretary for $58,000.  Vincent said that is a very big typo.  He said under Capital Outlay there are two computers.  These computers are the big ones.  They have two real estate people who have to interface with Engineering and Planning.  He said Engineering just went to the new AUTO CAD system and in order for us to run the new system, we have to have the big computers.  He said you have already been informed about the vehicle.

Purcell asked Council what guidance they want to give the Manager because the City Attorney is asking for an additional $42,000.

Devine said everybody is asking for stuff and hasn't heard anybody mention anything about cuts anywhere.

Bass said the Senior Clerical Assistant should be full time for sure out of all that.

Purcell said on next Thursday's budget meeting the City Manager is going to bring back a list of all the adds Council has tentatively told him to do and based on that he will give us a total.  He will also bring into consideration where he thinks we are going to be on salaries and we will see the total increase over and above his proposed budget and we will have to have a discussion where we will get this additional money and then we will have to give him some guidance.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked why the CIP item was coming up again.

Purcell said before he and Givens got here, on the 6 ^th of April, the Council voted and took final action on what the CIP was going to be.  The Council voted for every item in the CIP.  The majority all agreed on these items, however, there were people who disagreed on various items.  Based on that being the final answer on the 6^th of April, he, the City Manager, and the City Attorney started the process by getting with the Bond Attorney. When he came into office, the Bond Attorney came down and they all got together and wrote out the proper documents.  All we were going to do Tuesday night was to approve the two ordinances, then we heard everyone wanted to start making changes.  We postponed it on Tuesday night until next Tuesday and will discuss it.  If everyone is satisfied with what we did we will have the documents ready to go, will read the ordinances in their entirety, and then approve the ordinances, set the election and be done. That's what happened, but on Tuesday night that has got to be the final answer of this Council because all those things and all the time spent to put it together and if there are any changes, it all has to be redone.  Once those ordinances pass, we get them over to the Election Office and all the appropriate places.

Ewing-Holmstrom asked if there was a majority trying to change things they have already voted on.  Purcell said he doesn't have any idea.  Bass said he didn't think that's the problem.  We went over all these items and we were all going to agree on this and decide. In his opinion, we temporarily approved it and thought we were going to bring it back. Shanklin said we spent two nights on the CIP and down here a half dozen times on the budget.  He said the CIP is more major to him than the budget.  Ewing-Holmstrom said after all the CIP meetings we are going to have to come back and discuss it again.  Purcell said it appears that's what the Council wants to do.  If they decide Tuesday night to accept that last final version, then all we will have to do is read the ordinances and approve them.  If that is not Council's desire, we will go through the entire discussion again. When we finish on Tuesday night, that will be the final because they have to all be rewritten and brought back to Council with the new ordinances.  Ewing-Holmstrom asked if the final vote for the CIP would be on Tuesday night.  Purcell said he didn't know, but if Council doesn't change anything from their April 6 ^th approval, then all we'll be doing is the final vote on the ordinances.  If Council starts changing things, those two ordinances will have to be changed, with the attorneys, and the Bond Attorneys and come back at the next meeting to vote on.

Ewing-Holmstrom said she would not be here Tuesday.

Purcell asked Council if anyone wants to change the items in the CIP that were voted on April 6 ^th.  Bass said he would like to discuss them.  Purcell said we will discuss them on Tuesday night.  The City Manager will be ready Tuesday night with all the add ons.

Bass said the meeting doesn't have to be at 6:00, we could wait till 7 or 8 and have a full house.  Ewing-Holmstrom asked if we could have it at 7:00.  Purcell asked her if she could be here at 7:00 and she answered in the affirmative.  He asked Council if 7:00 p.m. would be alright for Tuesday night and all agreed except Shanklin.  Purcell said the meeting would start at 7:00 p.m.

There being no further business to consider, the meeting adjourned at 9:00 p.m. upon motion, second and roll call vote.