Month 1997-5 May
Meeting of 1997-5-15 Budget Meeting
MINUTES
LAWTON CITY SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 15, 1997 - 5:30 P.M.
WAYNE GILLEY CITY HALL COUNCIL CHAMBER
John T. Marley, Mayor Also Present:
Presiding Gil Schumpert, City Manager
Felix Cruz, City Attorney
Brenda Smith, City Clerk
Sandra Rench, Deputy City Clerk
The meeting was called to order at 5:35 p.m. Notice of meeting and agenda were
posted on the City Hall bulletin board as required by State law.
ROLL CALL
Present: Richard Williams, Ward Two
Jeffrey Sadler, Ward Three
John Purcell, Ward Four
Robert Shanklin, Ward Five
Charles P. Beller, Ward Six
Carol Green, Ward Seven
Randy Warren, Ward Eight
John T. Marley, Mayor
Absent: Jody Maples, Ward One
BUSINESS ITEMS:
1. Conduct review of proposed FY 1997-98 City of Lawton budget.
Mayor Marley said the Council had decided to look at the departmental initiatives first
and suggested if there are any questions or discussions on the individual items they can
address and determine whether they want to see any of them implemented.
Shanklin said some of the Council members have been influenced, by his belief which
has been proved to be in error, in regard to the bond issue passed in 1972 which would
have been paid off in 1997 and was in excess of $600,000. He said unbeknownst to him
they included that in their budget a year ago and when that bond issue was passed they
had to put the first year's payment up at that time so paid it in 24 years instead of 25
years. He said he was anticipating that in 1997 they would have $687,000 to play with
but that was included in carry over of 96-97 so they don't have those funds as he
thought they had. He apologized to any of those people who he misled.
Purcell said there were some good initiatives on how to raise money, some items
required no cost or time for Management Information Systems (MIS) and it seemed to
him that the City Manager would have the authority to implement those low cost items
and didn't see why they couldn't ask those to be done. He complemented everyone who
submitted the initiatives.
Mayor Marley asked the Council if they wanted to go through all the initiatives and it was
determined they would review each item.
City Clerks Office: Review of City's system of use of boards and commissions.
Purcell said it seemed to be an outstanding item.
Williams noted the number of staff members and the amount of time they would be
spending on the Boards and Commissions and suggested the requirement for that
number of staff members be reviewed.
Schumpert asked if the Council wanted a Council committee to go through each and
every board and commission to see if they needed to change the bylaws, combine
boards or do away with some of them. He said staff is not in a good position to
recommend what boards and commissions to do away with in that anything they do can
be considered self-serving. He said they could have a combination of staff and Council
members to review the boards because they think there are too many but they need the
Council to agree and inform them what needs to be done about it.
Williams said the City Clerk should be on that committee. Purcell said the City Clerk and
possibly three or four City Council members.
Smith said the other part is to see how the Internet, newspaper, or the new ways of
communicating with one another can be used to gain input from citizens; they need to
have that but need to look at how they can get it in order to provide the most benefit to
the most people with the least amount of staff time.
Purcell suggested the Mayor appoint four members of the City Council, the City Clerk
and Doug Wells to be on a committee to review this information and come up with
recommendations.
Purcell, Green, Warren and Shanklin volunteered to serve on the Committee to review
the initiative from the City Clerk's Office.
Communications Department: Improving Service to the Public and City Departments.
Schumpert reviewed the initiative for Mobile Computer (Data) Terminals to be placed in
City emergency vehicles. He said it is not suggested to all be done at one time but is
suggesting that an allocation be identified to be used towards this initiative.
Williams asked if Graalum can come up with money in his budget to start a fund.
Beller asked if this would be in every police vehicle eventually.
Ken Graalum, Communications Director, said eventually every police vehicle and fire
truck would be equipped with a terminal and once that was accomplished and working it
would be expanded to other city departments such as Building Development and
Engineering; anyone who would need to have information in the field could get a data
transmission from their secretary or dispatch.
Beller asked if any of this was available or being done. Graalum said no they don't have
any at this time.
Graalum said the first consoles he installed was approximately eight or nine years ago
and those have been replaced since that time because they were outdated as
computers and systems evolved. He said the initial $300,000 is the amount needed to
get into the system, as far as a cost savings, he couldn't say it would save a lot of
money because it is a benefit to police and fire and other departments that will
eventually use it but it takes time to maintain the system and once it is operating the
system will need to be upgraded the same as any other computer system.
Beller said if they start this program they should probably start with the police vehicles
and asked how many vehicles they would be installed in. Graalum recommended
installing them in approximately half the fire trucks and approximately 20 police units
which would be set up to be moved from vehicle to vehicle and as money becomes
available could start installing them in the individual police vehicles.
Beller asked if the information wouldn't be more important to the police department for
bringing up records on individuals and what information would be requested if they were
in fire department vehicles. Graalum said they would have access to the hazardous
material data information in the computer for the fire scene such as electrical and gas
shut offs, especially in commercial buildings and warehouses.
Williams asked if he or the Fire or Police chiefs know of any grants that may be
available. Graalum said they don't know of any at this time.
Purcell asked if this is tied into initiative number two from the Police Chief for mobile
data terminals. Graalum said they are the same thing and noticed this initiative is in the
manual three times. Purcell asked if this couldn't be funded through the E-911 money
for the Police department vehicles. Graalum said that is correct and currently when the
E-911 funds are set at 5% base rate, 2% of those funds must be spent for equipment,
they can't be utilized for routine operations; up to this time they have been expending
those funds to upgrade the communication systems in the police and fire departments
and upgrading repeater systems and computer systems. He said in the long term if they
continued the 5% annually Livingston may be able to tell them how they could bank
those funds until they had enough for an initial down payment on a system and the E-911 funds would
be one of the best ways to go at this.
Purcell said the Police Chief estimated $100,000 for one-third of the divisions vehicles
and Graalum is proposing approximately $300,000 in the first year. Graalum said the
$300,000 is the initial cost, that is not just the vehicles, but to get the system up and
running with just the Police and Fire Departments on line. Purcell asked if the start up
cost for all the police and fire is $300,000. Graalum said that is an approximate amount.
Purcell said to do one-third of the police department the first year they would only need
about $100,000. Graalum said the Police Chief got the figures from him and what was
discussed was if they could obtain $100,000 for three years within, three years they
would have a full system up and running, the proposal does not take into account any
additional work for Doug Wells and MIS.
Williams asked if there are any carry overs in Council Contingency and what may be
remaining. Schumpert said there are no carry overs, Livingston has projected the
amounts needed to make it to the end of the year based on the current expenditures of
all the departments and all the accounts and then added it to the revenue pile. He said
the requests from each activity are reviewed and cut until they have a balanced budget
so the only carry over is what is projected as essential or critical to go into the next year
which is approximate $500,000 this year. The contingency fund is the only item that has
a carry over at this point in time which is approximately $45,000 remaining in this year's
budget.
Shanklin asked if there is never a carry over in the budget. Schumpert said the carry
over is identified in the budget as approximately a half million dollars. Shanklin asked
why it shows 2.9 million. Schumpert said that is the revenue that is gleaned from all the
sources that they start out with but after they get through putting the budget together the
amount they end up with is carryover for future years. Shanklin said even though they
are showing $500,000 at the end of the year they should have around $3 million.
Schumpert said that was correct.
Purcell asked if Graalum has $100,000 in the E-911 money that could be used to do this
as opposed to the equipment that is budgeted that could be diverted over to some of
these items. Graalum said the money he requested for the Communications Department
and the Fire Department are expenses that enhance or would have to be expended at
some point. Schumpert said Graalum has completely allocated the E-911 moneys for
this budget year against either emergency equipment as capital outlay or towards the
operation of his communications center.
Shanklin said his budget is over $800,000 and asked how far they anticipate that budget
to go, what happened with the anticipation of the County coming into this and if that
wouldn't reduce some of this. Schumpert said it wouldn't reduce it, whatever the County
gives to the City would be to offset what it would cost to run the County side. He said at
the current date the County would simply be asking the City to pass data, it doesn't
appear they will be hiring any additional people or purchasing additional equipment and
other than possibly a one time purchase of equipment the County will be doing their own
dispatch and operating their own E-911 system.
Mayor Marley said they need to keep a plus and minus balance sheet and determine at
the end what they have, how much money they will have to come up with, and go back
into the budget and see where it is going to come from. He said they can start with
$100,000.
Williams said when they get to the Fire and Police budgets they can determine if they
can combine the cost of the equipment from those departments including the
Communications Department.
Mayor Marley said this would be an additional $100,000.
Shanklin asked what the $300,000 was for, and would it just be an exercise in futility
with the other technology that is available. Schumpert said it would provide
instantaneous information to the vehicle which now has to be transmitted to a dispatcher
to look up and provide back to the unit. The Fire trucks now have books in their vehicles
of the vital information which has to be continually updated manually.
Williams asked if this is a system where the person in the vehicle can type in information
and the requested information will come up on the screen instead of calling a dispatcher
who would have to find the information and radio the information back. Graalum said
that is correct.
Williams said this is one less step to be taken which would equate to less man hours
and if some of these other initiatives are adopted, MIS will be asked to provide
assistance and it looks as though they will be saving some money or labor hours.
Graalum said in the first system he installed they found that the number of license
checks and stolen vehicles found by that department increased 5 times in the first year
just by checking licenses on vehicles in motel parking lots at night. He said the
downside is the number of accidents that occur due to the officers using the keyboard
while driving so some immediate training will need to take place regarding not using the
terminals while driving.
Warren said they are 10 years behind or more, frequencies are getting fewer and fewer
and they can put a lot more information through the terminals than they can over a
microphone.
Graalum said it also provides secure data because of the scanners and decoders and it
is almost prohibitive to try to buy a radio system that encrypts voice; the crooks out there
with the scanners can hear where the officers are being dispatched to and you can't buy
a scanner that will decode these computer systems unless you buy the entire $150,000
computer system.
Williams said they may need to rank these items by priority and cost and determine
which ones to implement when they are finished.
Beller asked what could be purchased from the $3 for rolling stock, page 2 projects
carry overs, and why there are no figures for the projected carry over. Schumpert said
there is no projected carry over, they have spent what was in the fund for rolling stock
other than a month or two of collection. He said he had incorrectly anticipated that the
Council wanted to collect the rolling stock fee and would budget it this year and spend
what they had collected but the Council wanted to collect and spend it this year so
Livingston did a projection of how much would be collected and they came back to the
Council with a request from the departments prioritized and the Council spent this year's
money. They have projected that they will collect $1.2 million this year and with the
capital outlay requests at $1.2 million, it is a wash.
Williams asked if some of this equipment could be purchased with the capital outlay
money. Schumpert said that gets into the definition of rolling stock and what the
Resolution says and if they want to take $100,000 out of the capital outlay they will do
what they are directed to do. Purcell said they can take it out of capital outlay just not
out of rolling stock. Williams said it is all capital outlay. Schumpert said they are going to
need more than $100,000.
Mayor Marley said the consensus of the Council is to show it as a plus for $100,000 and
at the end will decide where they want to get it from.
Personnel Item No. 1: Automated Employment Application Processing
Consensus of the Council was to Do It at $5,000.
Personnel Item No. 2: Fees for Advanced Applicant Testing
Schumpert said applicants for police and fire require a great deal more time to process
the applications due to the testing, interviewing and agility testing, etc., and out of 100
applicants in the final process end up with approximately 20.
Williams asked if this is legal. Bridwell said they surveyed what other personnel
departments and public entities are doing and while there isn't a ground swell of
organizations doing this they did find a sufficient number of them that are charging
application or processing fees in order to recoup some of the costs. He said the State of
Oklahoma is now charging application fees, the process evolved because there are any
number of occupations such as doctors, lawyers, dentists, architects and auditors, who
have some type of certification fee and the personnel departments began asking
whether people in police and fire would be enthusiastic enough about their professions
to put forward the fees for the testing and that is how they arrived at the $10 fee and
determined that would just about recoup their cost. He said they receive approximately
250 to 400 applicants for police or fire and end up with an eligibility list of approximately
50 to 95 annually.
Purcell said if they have 500 total applicants between police and fire and charge $10
that is the $5,000 which is the cost for the previous initiative and would be even at this
point and anyone who wants to apply for one of those positions should be willing to pay
that amount and should do it.
Williams asked if $10 is truly their cost. Bridwell said if they audited the cost it probably
wouldn't come up exactly equal but it is close to the amount they put out. Williams said it
would probably be close to $25 but $10 would be fine. Bridwell said the higher amount
would probably screen out a lot of people but $10 is a more reasonable fee.
Shanklin said he didn't believe in that because people are needing those jobs and don't
have $10, he sees them Council members with jobs and their budget and it almost
makes him fighting mad to think he would have to pay $10 to put in an application and
didn't like it.
Beller asked Cruz if they charged application fees for fire and police why wouldn't they
have to charge for all the applications. Cruz said certain professions require additional
inquiries or background investigation as in the case of police and fire where additional
testing is required such as the psychological testing. He said the fees are just to recover
their costs for administration which are normally not given to regular employees and it
would have to be for a specialized group that requires additional time or specialized
background investigation and inquiries so it would be permissible under those
conditions.
Shanklin said they are making it sound as though their costs are outside the citizens of
Lawton, Oklahoma and the Council is setting themselves up as though they aren't a part
of the City of Lawton and they are. He said the Personnel Department belongs to them
too and to set up here to recover our costs, he didn't like it, it is a cost to be in business,
they have $46 million and they are going to try to save some of it for $10 and was not in
agreement with this issue.
Williams asked if the $10 would be across the board for any applicant or just the
bargaining units. Schumpert said not the bargaining unit, just police and fire, any
position that requires an increase of testing. He said any general applicant goes through
a personnel screen and interview with the department and are either hired or not; but in
the police and fire there are background checks, testing, interviewing and a physical test
and these tests have to be set up, graded and equipment rented and is the reason why
it would be for police and fire or any of those positions which require additional activities
which is police and fire at the current time.
Beller asked if there are other communities in Oklahoma using this program. Bridwell
said the State of Oklahoma itself is but he was not aware of any other cities at this time
doing this although there are some that are looking at this. Beller asked if the State has
a charge. Bridwell said the segment of personnel management is charging processing
fees for certain testing.
Williams asked if this fee would be at the very first level when applying for a position or
at a higher level. Bridwell said they had in mind that it would be for those positions
where they have the advanced testing procedure and will be having an orientation
process to visit with anyone who wants to be an applicant to inform them that the
processing package fees and testing would be $10 so the answer would be "sort of" at
the beginning.
Green asked if the applicant would pay the $10 at the very beginning. Beller said yes
whether they were hired or not.
Shanklin said the lowest entry they have, which is meter reader, they had 300 applicants
at one time not too many years ago and understood they wouldn't be involved but do
they really all think that everyone has the same fair shot at these jobs, that if there are
250 people who apply to be a policeman or fireman they all have the same shot. Some
of that stuff is cut and dried before it ever comes about and they are considering
charging them $10 and couldn't agree to that.
Mayor Marley said the consensus at this time is no.
Personnel Item No. 3: Electronic Time Sheets
The consensus of the Council was not to do this at this point in time.
Personnel Item No. 4: Supervisory Training Academy
Williams said if the cost of $10,000 for supervisory training can be justified they should
do it.
Purcell asked where the savings going to come from because he didn't believe they
were sued by employees for $100,000. Bridwell said when they total the costs involved
in defending Personnel Board actions and law suits filed it would probably be a greater
amount than that.
The consensus of the Council was to include it on the plus side at $10,000.
Beller said he wasn't in agreement but would go with the majority. Mayor Marley said
they will have a number of items when they are finished and can go back and eliminate
some items.
Personnel Item No. 5: Wellness Program
Williams asked if they hadn't done this with the local hospital or an in-house wellness
program. Bridwell said they have never had a formalized wellness program although
they do several things to contribute to wellness. He said at one time they had a mini-physical screening
program where Memorial Hospital came in and took blood pressure,
etc. and they are proposing to formalize many of the actions that would contribute to a
wellness program. He said he would work with the Employee Health Committee to
establish the parameters and the actual things they would want to see and it would take
some time to develop.
Williams asked if a wellness program could be included with the contract with the entity
that is handling the health insurance. Bridwell said he is not aware of any of their
contracts that would currently allow that but can look into it.
Schumpert said the contract the City has for insurance is basically a claims processing
system for the City, they simply process the claims.
Bridwell said they could establish and send an RFP to the providers in town to see what
the responses are and then decide whether they can fund it and if not could withdraw it.
Williams said that wouldn't cost very much and could get going toward some kind of a
program. Purcell said if they are going to put it in next year's budget they could wait until
near the budget next year to ask for information and would have some figures. He said
he hated to see them going out with an RFP if they have no intention of letting it, people
don't realize how much it costs.
Beller said Comanche County Memorial Hospital has wellness programs on a regular
basis, anyone is welcome to attend, it is free and if they were to ask the Hospital to hold
one of those meetings here they would probably do so. He asked Bridwell to explain
what was meant by "establishing a wellness program which makes preventative health
and wellness a priority for City employees" because health and wellness should already
be a priority. Bridwell said generally a wellness program is generated toward those
things that are preventive in nature such as teaching people about diet, how to control
their cholesterol, etc. Beller said Comanche Hospital has programs like that regularly
with excellent attendance and they may need to encourage City employees to attend
those programs and could discuss giving those who attend some type of incentive and
that would be a good place to start.
Green said they could include information in the City employee newsletter. Schumpert
said they are putting that type of information in the newsletter.
The consensus of the Council on this Item was no.
Audit Department: Relocation of Audit Department Office
Mayor Marley said this item has been referred to the City Manager.
Audit Department: Purchase Data Extraction Software
Consensus of Council was yes at $3,500.
City Attorney: Reassessment of legal support
Cruz said this is part of their efforts to increase their staff, and could probably cover the
support with a paralegal or legal assistant. He said he is requesting an additional
attorney to help in their efforts because of the over all work load with the cases but after
reviewing all of the assets, costs and expenditures involved he is convinced they could
solve their needs by having a paralegal or legal assistant. This person could do the legal
research and prepare the legal documents which would provide the attorney's with more
time to concentrate on their case load preparing depositions, etc. He said an attorney
would cost approximately $43,000 to $45,000 plus computers and equipment at
approximately $65,000 whereas a paralegal would cost approximately $36,000 the first
year to include the salary and office equipment. In addition this person could assume
the investigation process on claims which is being handled by Jeff Welch who is being
proposed to be moved to the Personnel offices as part of another initiative.
Purcell said this is the same as adding another person and thought they were trying to
hold the number of personnel down and even though the City Attorney needs help he
couldn't support the issue.
Mayor Marley said this item is a maybe.
Shanklin asked if they are moving Mr. Welch to the Personnel Department would he still
be doing the same job he is doing now and what they are going to gain.
Cruz said Mr. Welch is the Risk Manager, Safety Officer and investigates the claims and
has been in the Attorney's office for seven or eight years when he was moved to their
office from Personnel and he is doing a great job. He said Welch needs to get out of
investigating claims so he can spend more time on safety and risk management
because he has to devote 100% of his time to those areas. He said since safety is not a
legal issue it should not be in the Attorney's office but in Personnel or somewhere else
and the main reason for this suggestion is because the Attorney's office is a sanctuary
for attorney/client privilege. He said when Welch is working in his office on investigations
Cruz can cloak that attorney/client information because he is doing a work product for
the attorney but he can't provide the same sanctuary for the part-time secretary. He said
he has to move Welch otherwise he can't provide the protection to the Mayor, City
Manager and City Council who are his clients and is the main reason for recommending
he be moved preferably to the Personnel Department.
Shanklin said 10 years later they finally decide it is important. Cruz said they have only
had the part-time clerk for about a year.
Shanklin asked if there is room for Welch in the Personnel Department. Cruz said yes,
and will be moving his computer and equipment and Welch will continue to do their
investigations of claims.
Schumpert said a legal assistant could possibly also do the claims rather than Welch.
Shanklin asked whose supervision he is under at this point. Cruz said Welch is
completely under his supervision. Shanklin asked if when Welch goes to Personnel if he
would be under Bridwell. Cruz said he would be.
City Attorney: Access to public records.
Cruz said they are doing this now, the City Code is on the computer and is available for
access.
City Attorney: Improving employees' safety awareness.
Cruz said this item is in regard to Jeff Welch moving to the Personnel Department.
Finance Department: Sales tax on coin-operated amusement and vending devices
Williams asked if the City could actually collect $35,000 to $50,000 if this were
implemented.
Livingston said at the current time they charge a $20 fee on amusement devices as
defined under the Code and there are approximately 980 devices. When the State
removed the sales tax, in approximately 1988, from all these devices and went to a
permit system they gave the City the ability to charge up to 75% of the permit charge
which is approximately $50 and at that time Council decided not to charge the 75%. He
said theoretically all these devices were supposed to be paying sales tax up to that point
but the enforcement was difficult so the State went to the permit system and the City
lost the sales tax on food type machines so they are recommending they raise the
permit fee from $20 to $37.50 on amusement devices and coin operated food machines,
etc. This would be the City's annual fee in addition to the State's.
Mayor Marley said this would be a Do It item at $500.
Purcell said this would increase their revenue by $35,000.
Schumpert said the Staff will take the necessary steps to accomplish this task.
Shanklin asked if they have been able to do this since 1988 but hadn't done it.
Livingston said yes.
Finance Department: Change the current methods of billing and charging multi-unit
utility account's vacancy adjustments.
Schumpert said they are hoping the Council will approve this because Livingston passes
these things on to his office and for the amount of money involved it is one of the
biggest headaches he has and it is unreal what the current system generates in strife
and discontent on both sides because no one is happy when they get through with this
process. The staff, all the clerk's and the people doing it get mad and it is a bizarre
system.
Shanklin said the bills go out and by that time he may have renter but may not have had
a renter for two weeks of that cycle, it is impossible to say he has done it fairly every
time because he can't, it would have to be at his discretion and no one else's but he
didn't like the 80/20. Livingston said the 80/20 is just an example, they want to increase
the accuracy of their billing and to send out bills that are correct. He said they send out
1,000 bills now where people come back in an make adjustments to. He said those
people that have big units managed in California, for example, have to come in to get
the bills figured and then send the adjusted bills to California, California approves the
bills and sends them back for payment and if they are two days late they can lose
$1,000 and there are a lot of problems with that because there are deadlines they have
to follow according to the Code. He said they don't know if the 80/20 is right or not but
they need something, whatever the Council thinks it should be. He said he called some
other cities about vacancy adjustments about 3 or 5 years ago and the 3 to 5 cities in
Oklahoma he called didn't know what he was talking about and when he asked them
how they billed multi-unit water consumers was told they charged them for the water, if it
was full they used more water and if not they used less. He said the problem is that
Lawton has a pretty high minimum cost so it appears they need to make some
allowance for that because some of the other cities just charge for the amount of water
that is used, most cities have some way of charging just for gallons. He said he doesn't
know what the accuracy is of these certifications, he checked a few at one time and
some were very accurate and some were not.
Shanklin said if he had 100 apartment units he could lie to the City about the vacancies
but if the water usage is there he still pays it, he can't get away from the water usage
itself. Livingston said that is correct but there is a lot of difference between paying for
water usage and taking off $20 or so on an account for water and sewer for 50 units. He
said he checked out a situation a long time ago where a person had approximately 21
duplex units and sometimes there would be 2 on one bill and each one of the meters the
owner claimed one person with either 1, 2 or 3 vacancies and on these 21 units, by
calculating the consumption for a year, from 2 month's billing on consumption and
vacancies reported they lost approximately $4,100 a year on that one customer. He said
they have cases where they are up in the $4,000 to $5,000 range.
Shanklin said if he had 100 units that were rented and they each used 3,000 gallons
which is 300,000 and he came in and said there were only 50 of them and is given the
break but is still paying 300,000 gallons at $1.25 added together it comes pretty close
because of the check and balance. Livingston said maybe the thing to do is get some
examples because this is a lot of money, and try to figure out what the Council would
like to do and maybe talk with some of the land owners to try to figure out a good
approach. He said they get 1,000 people in their office every month, some of them have
problems and they have to deal with them, in addition they don't know how accurate
those numbers are and they need a fair way to send the bill for these people to send to
their headquarters and then send in the payment.
Shanklin said he would be for that but it would save some hard feelings.
Beller asked if the suggestion is to go back and refigure the 80/20. Livingston said yes,
that was just an example of saying this may be 70/30 or something else.
Beller asked if they can say it is an excellent program and just instruct staff to work out
the numbers. Livingston said that is where they were.
Purcell said this is some MIS time and need to consider these hours when they get to
the MIS budget. Livingston said this would probably save MIS time because they are
having to keypunch all of these adjustments and so forth. Schumpert said it will take 10
hours to change the program but they spend more than 10 hours making the
adjustments.
Do It.
Finance Department: Consolidate and reduce the number of expenditure accounts.
Do It.
Finance Department: Landfill Scale Program
Livingston said the scale tickets are brought in and sent them to MIS to be keypunched,
sent back and manually billed because the cities, for example being billed, want invoice
type billing. He said this system is time consuming and they need to know the number of
pounds etc. for the State of Oklahoma because DEQ gets approximately $1.25. He said
several years ago they put a terminal in with a line to the mainframe, bid software to
hook to their scales and have done a number of things but every time they turn around
they seem to need more money and now are looking at a $32,000 cost, however, one of
the draw backs is whether they should purchase new scales first or last and he is not
sure where he is at on computerizing the landfill. He said he is not sure if he is just
asking for $32,000 in addition to the $40,000 they will probably spend on scales or what.
He said this is an item they need some attention to and they can't seem to get there.
Williams said it sounds like a capital outlay item.
Shanklin asked why it is $32,000. Livingston said they have to provide a dust free
environment for the computer which will take some work and want direct access rather
than a dedicated line so it will cost about $5,000 for a radio tower because they are
going to radio towers for all of their locations and overall that is a savings. He said the
total cost is for different items, the program was bid but the bidder misunderstood what
was actually needed and can't provide what is requested. He said they are at a point
where they could save a lot of money but didn't know how much money. He said they
need to get this computerized for a lot of different reasons, there are a lot of different
people working on it with a lot of inaccuracies, etc.
Shanklin asked if they would have to change the personnel at the scale in order to work
on that. Livingston said he didn't think so but they are still working on this.
Mayor Marley said this will be a maybe.
Finance Department: Refuse Charges for Lawton Public Schools
Livingston said the City charges every customer account a minimum bill but don't charge
the school system because at one time the Council took the action that the school is
different then the other customers and shouldn't be charged a minimum bill. He said the
initiative is to charge a minimum bill on all the school accounts just as they do anyone
else which would bring in about $11,000 a year.
Several Council members said to do it.
Mayor Marley suggested sending the school board a letter telling them what they are
contemplating to see what kind of a reaction they get.
Shanklin said they are talking as though the school is an enemy or foreign power and
they own the public school system the same as the citizens own them. He said the
$12,000 isn't the issue, the grease traps are much more important to get into
compliance because they are part of the city too whenever they overload the lines with
grease. He said he agreed in the past to charge them for water but should not charge
them $12,000 for refuse if they can get them to comply with the grease traps and selling
water at the same price, they would be better neighbors.
Williams said they need to be consistent with all of their customers if there is an
expense the City is incurring to serve a need that exists then that cost needs to be
passed onto that consumer whether it be the school system or any other entity. He
asked if they had a similar arrangement with the County or the Health Department.
Livingston said not to his knowledge, they charge basically every resident whether they
put garbage out on the street or not they charge the same minimum fee. He said the
City has to collect their refuse, if they use a private hauler today and tomorrow call the
City within a reasonable amount of time they have to make arrangements and collect
their trash so they always have to be ready to collect all the refuse. He said secondly
they charge a minimum fee to make sure the people don't try to dispose of their own
waste or refuse in some way to save the refuse bill, such as throwing their trash in an
open field or the side of the road, etc. He said they never made this exception until
approximately 8 or 9 years ago when they had a recommendation and took the school
off.
Beller said he assumed that there were other quasi-governmental entities, the hospitals,
and other that are charged. Livingston said if they have an account they charge them.
Beller said while they are all one entity they have interaction and charges back and forth
and agreed with Williams. He said they should send a letter to the school board
informing them that due to the money crunch they found that they have to get the
money wherever necessary.
Mayor Marley said his suggestion was to send the school board a letter of what they are
contemplating, however, if they would put $12,000 a year into grease traps at the
schools the City would be inclined to waive that fee and asked how much it would cost
to provide grease traps for a school. Ronnie Graves said it depends on the amount of
water and amount of grease trouble they are having.
Williams said there are two separate issues, the grease traps are the most damaging
but this is an expense the City is incurring to provide a service and if the Lawton Public
Schools aren't shouldering their responsibilities then the other citizens and other
accounts have to and that isn't fair for them to ask the rest of the citizens to take on the
responsibility when someone else is not.
Shanklin said those citizens are the ones that are on that school board too.
Warren said those people who couldn't afford a $10 application fee are paying taxes to
support the school system and it is not right if it doesn't have to pay for its garbage
collection.
Mayor Marley said he will send a letter to the school board and see what their reaction
is. Beller said their reaction will be that they would rather not pay it and they may need
to be more stringent with the grease traps.
Purcell said the City and the school board belong to the citizens so all they are talking
about is which pocket the money is going to be paid out of, will it be the pocket the
citizens put into the school board or pay it out of the City and in fairness the school
should pay its fair share and $11,000 from their budget is not going to hurt them and
politically they need to do something rather than just imposing it.
Mayor Marley said the hierarchy of the school system may not even know they aren't
paying for the trash pick up.
Finance Department: Water Meter Route Re-sizing.
Livingston said the Finance Department has had the same general program for general
ledger payroll and utility billing for close to 25 years and the computer personnel have
done a lot of work to keep these things where they would work. He said the programs
are beginning to show their age because when they try to do something that would
make some efficiencies in resizing the routes, which would make a lot of sense to
equalizes the size of the route, the billing, the collections, etc. they have a number of
problems and it takes time and preparation to do. They are keeping records on pieces of
paper and when someone wants to send out reminders they have trouble finding
information fast and processing payments easily, and a part of their problem is getting
enough computer help because they don't have the help to give. He said Doug Wells
requested another programmer when the MIS presentation was provided and it seems
as though it is something they need to provide some attention in this area.
Beller said this should have already been in effect and Schumpert should have already
put things of this nature into effect. Schumpert said it would be a new employee.
Williams asked if the program could be contracted out. Schumpert said in this unique
case it is cheaper to hire than to contract because there are other items that are going
to require computer personnel.
Shanklin asked if the request was to contract out 50 hours. Schumpert said that was a
suggestion but they need a programmer.
Livingston said they could probably go through the next initiatives because they are all
about the same thing, the problem is that the present and past City Manager's have
seen the items as being administrative and have not been able to get these things done
and when he asked his divisions for initiatives they provided more than what he has
included. He said there are a lot of good programs out there and from the Finance area
they need to take a look at this so that they can begin to move up and get more modern.
Mayor Marley said these items are their major accounts for revenue so they really need
to do this. (This included Automating Customer Agreements; and Bar-coding of utility
bills with account numbers.)
Schumpert said if the Council tells them to do it on the water meter route re-sizing and
on the next one it will translate to in-house to be worked in the MIS division and they had
held out a reserve so they could go back and add an employee and these items are
reinforcing the need for that additional position.
Livingston said if they get an employee he is going to remind them why they are getting
that employee.
Do It for Water Meter Route Re-sizing; Automating Customer Agreements; and Bar-coding of utility bills
with account numbers.
Finance Department: Automated Purchasing System
Livingston said although they have looked at writing their own system to handle these
purchasing requisitions because every purchase requisition has up to five signatures.
He said one of the things cities are already doing is that when a department fills out a
requisition for a purchase they put the account, the amount, the vendor, if they don't
require purchasing approval, and this document goes through the system without any
additional key punching or time wasted in delivery and invoices lost. In addition, if the
department didn't have the money in the account they would know at that time because
it wouldn't let them put the requisition in until they corrected it. He said basically they
have to computer punch everything twice and are still on a batch system and antiquated
in this area, it would save a lot of paperwork and a lot of time.
Williams asked if there is quite a bit of savings in this.
Livingston said he didn't know what the savings would be. Williams asked if he could
determine a savings and bring it back to them. Livingston said they can take a look at it.
Warren said it is probably a good idea except for the cost of the software and would
think they could find software cheaper. Livingston said they have to find something that
will run on the 3,000 where their general ledger is or, if they can get something off to the
side, that produces the necessary information so the 3,000 can pick up and post to the
account. He said they are still running off the old cobalt and general ledger payment
system so they don't have the choices that others have.
Purcell said they could go out to Cameron University and find a student project and even
though it may need to be cleaned up by MIS a lot of the work could be done by
Cameron under the system and save some money.
Shanklin said they should think real strongly about an incentive of $3,500 or $7,500
prize or reward bonus to get that implemented within our own system, with our own
personnel. Livingston said he would like that but whatever department they dropped to
get that done may not like it too much for the bonus.
Warren said they seem to be fighting the HP computers continuously, at some point
they will have to move into some other way of doing things because it is eating them
alive. There is no reason why a City the size of Lawton couldn't implement a program
such as this for less than $75,000 and part of the reason is the computer.
Schumpert said they can buy systems that allow them to do things but each City has
unique deducts for things such as clothing or cleaning allowances; police, fire and
general employee salaries. He said they can either spend the money and get the
program that runs what they need or they can put in different amounts of money and
take the chance of the program crashing. Schumpert said they either need to write a
program or buy a program that does all they want done that will allow them to put in all
the parameters they need to have.
Purcell said the big problem why they have to use the old HP is because of payroll and if
they could buy or develop a program for a PC or with server capability if they developed
their own program to run payroll they could start buying all the other things that are off
the shelf and cheaper. He said it is initial money up front but it saves in the long run
because they modernize and it saves time over the years.
Mayor Marley said this item is a maybe.
Finance Department: Eliminate the use of claim numbers in the City's general ledger
system.
Livingston said in the 1970's they dropped claim numbers that are still in the system that
are required to be processed.
Williams asked how much MIS time this would require. Livingston estimated 40 hours.
Purcell said they could double the amount and add it.
Do It, 80 hours MIS time.
Finance Department: Reprogram the payroll update and entry system.
Livingston said they bought this program in 1975 or 1976 and it has been a good
program but it is a tough program to use and learn and if the payroll clerk is gone for a
period of time problems occur.
Schumpert asked if Livingston was saying they needed a new program or that MIS
needed to rewrite the program. Livingston said they need to rewrite the program.
Schumpert asked if MIS needs time to do this or do they need to buy a new program.
Livingston said he thinks it is MIS time to tie this together but doesn't know what they
require and hasn't had time to talk with Doug Wells about this.
Mayor Marley said there are a lot of good items but have been at this for two hours and
they haven't begun the budget and that should be their primary concern.
Schumpert said this is part of the budget.
Mayor Marley said they should get a balanced budget and then decide what they want to
do with the initiatives and work them into the budget because they are spending more
time on this than they are on the actual budget.
Williams said the initiatives have some true savings and true upgrading in bringing these
departments into an area they are sorely needing to be and if it is a long slow
painstaking procedure he is willing to do it.
Mayor Marley said he wanted to make sure that is what the members wanted to do.
Shanklin said he thought they were going to possibly look at one particular department
and possibly privatize it.
Williams said the staff has put a lot of time into these initiatives and the Council can find
the money to do these if they are needed and if they can provide a better service to the
citizens he is for it.
Purcell said the initiatives they have agreed to so far in terms of MIS time may provide
one more person in the MIS department and will have the employee's priorities just for
the next year.
Finance Department: Reorganize Revenue Services Division.
Livingston said they have people who set up accounts, handle difficult problems and
transfer of accounts, etc., cashiers and a billing section and have found there is a
problem in trying to be efficient because customer service people don't take money and
cashier's don't handle difficult customers to they have times when there are people who
aren't busy and other people are real busy and the customers who are also busy need
to be taken care of and they have a hard time understanding that and only customer
service will handle telephone calls. He said they are specialized in this area and working
out of that is a difficult problem. He said when they set up the program at Ft. Sill they
established an employee called a full service clerk who can set up accounts, discontinue
service or turn off accounts, take deposits and money and is what they are looking at
here. The difficulty is that position can't make agreements with people who don't have
the money to pay but if they had all the customer agreements available on the computer
they might be able to work that into that job.
Livingston said the city's capital outlay budget this year has money to tear out some
walls and when they have people setting together they want them to be able to handle
customers, whether it is a problem to solve, money to receive or phones to answer.
Purcell asked how many cashiers and customer service representatives they have.
Livingston said there are five cashiers and four customer service representatives.
Purcell said they have a total of nine people working as cashiers and in customer
service, this initiative would cross train those employees and with the bar coding
initiative it will take less time to pay utility bills and asked if they are going to be able to
get rid of one person. Livingston said he didn't know, they would have to take a look at it
but he would hate to give up a person and two years later have all kinds of problems to
pull these programs off and he would have to talk with Ralph Carson and see if he
would be willing to do that. Purcell said these two initiatives should save some personnel
time so they should be able to give up at least a half of a position at a later date
because they would be more efficient with these two initiatives.
Schumpert said they would have to assume they are providing satisfactory service at
this point in time and the fact of the matter is they are not or they wouldn't be asking for
these items. He said this simply gets them to the point of satisfactory service because
the people that come to his office from Revenue Services have had to wait one to two
hours, etc. and he hasn't seen a computer program yet that saved him employees at the
time he put the program in although it helped in out years by not requiring additional
people. He said he doesn't see any of these things saving employees, it will provide a
happier work force of employees willing to come to work knowing they can do their job
and provide more satisfied customers who can be served within 15 to 30 minutes and
that is not true at this time. He said if the Council approves these items and they
decrease an employee they are going to be back where they were which is not
necessarily a satisfactory rating. If every customer checked a sheet when they left the
building the satisfaction level would not materially change if they implement these and
reduce employees.
Williams said at some point when they make improvements in efficiencies it is going to
happen, he knows there is a fear of reduction in employees but it will happen.
Schumpert said there is an allusion that when automation or something is applied
employees can be cut but the very next year they were faced with requests for additional
employees because it was all based on the efficiency, they were not able to achieve the
customer satisfaction level that the Council and the citizens expect.
Williams asked if Schumpert is saying that level isn't being accomplished now.
Schumpert said if they do these initiatives and hire any extra persons they are
increasing the level, they are not forwarding or asking for approval to reduce their
employees because they don't gain anything if they approve all of these and tell the
people who have these initiatives to give up an employee, they are back where they
were. Williams said he doesn't think they are saying they have to give up an employee
but if they work smarter they don't have to work as hard and by not having to work as
hard you are going to improve the efficiency and by doing so you are not duplicating and
couldn't see how they wouldn't be working toward a more stream-lined, more efficient
operation.
Livingston said he agreed except he would be hard pressed to say he could give up an
employee in next year's budget. He said looking at the accounting department and when
they started with Data Processing, and the number of employees they had through 1976
and today, they have less people in accounting than they had 20 some years ago. He
said by one thing or another they have slowly reduced the number of employees but at
any point he would have been hard pressed to take any one item at any given time and
say next year he could give up someone. He said they have reduced people through
attrition and have given up positions and didn't think he could give up a position in next
year's budget. He said if they had a good system, if all the bills they sent out were good,
if customers didn't have to come back in and if they had all the things they have here
they would have a better more efficient organization.
Shanklin said the proof would be that they wouldn't have to hire a position in the future.
Williams asked if the reorganizing of the Revenue Services Division is just a change of
classifications. Livingston said yes, they need to go through it in depth with the City
Manager but it would include approximately $4,000 right now.
Do it.
Finance Department: Other Computer Changes Requested
Livingston said this item is tied up with the additional help they could get from data
processing and is in the same category of the rest of them.
Do It and include 200-300 additional hours for computer services.
Finance Department: Buyer's Link Software
Livingston said the Purchasing Supervisor feels if he could get networked they could get
enough additional interest in the bidding process to save $2,500 but was not prepared to
defend it.
Purcell said they saw this type of program in San Antonio and the money would be
recovered with the first couple bid purchases.
Do it.
Finance Department: Fax on Demand Software
Livingston said they have looked at cheaper ways of providing electronic access to
purchasing information by putting in computer cards, etc. and by purchasing a computer
but it didn't make the Capital Outlay this year. He said the Purchasing Supervisor thinks
it is an important initiative for the department because vendors can request a bid packet
or a list of bid items.
Maybe.
Finance Department: 10-Year Change-out Program for Water Meters
Livingston said this is a change-out program that Ralph Carson has estimated would
cost approximately $150,000 a year in additional labor and people involved because
Carson thinks the meters begin to turn slower and he has some support from the meter
companies and thinks this would be cost effective. The problem is it is an expensive
program.
Purcell asked if this couldn't be capital outlay in future years. Schumpert said technically
it falls under the other accounts but it is a trade off in other areas.
Sadler said there is no way to estimate how much they may be losing on something like
that and asked if they knew of these problems. Livingston said the National Water
Works Association provides statistics and seem to have studied how much wear and
tear a meter gets and how much it slows down, and if a meter slows down 2% in 10
years you lose a lot of money.
Sadler said he wouldn't want to see them spend $150,000 on something so they can
just collect more money from the citizens, the City may come out as a wash but the
citizens would be paying more and they would need to determine if it would be a
substantial increase.
Williams asked if the meters have ever sped up. Ralph Carson, Revenue Services
Supervisor, said it can occur.
Maybe.
Finance Department: Restructure the water and sewer rates so that all utility customers
pay at least the cost of providing the utility service.
Livingston said this item is a reminder that they may need to look at there rate structure
at some point if they are serious about how much they bill their large and small
customers. If they are looking at a cost to the City of $.93 they are not charging what it
costs. He said there are people who have in the past funded the infrastructure with sales
tax, they get different conflicts.
Williams said they shouldn't be selling things for less than it costs to do them.
Beller said when discussing utility rate increases it is incumbent upon the Council to look
at where they are selling large volumes of water, such as customers using millions of
gallons with the City selling it to them at a reduced loss or rate is ridiculous. He said the
City Manager has suggested coming back with a proposal to raise industrial rates.
Schumpert said they had provided a listing of the utility rate survey as reported to the
Oklahoma Municipal League (OML) which was broken down into the top 20, or
municipalities over 20,000 and looked at residential 5,000 and 10,000 gallons,
commercial 50,000 and 200,000, for both water and sewer and the Council saw that
they are in the middle for residential rates, are at the lower end on commercial in water
and in sewer are almost at the bottom in all categories.
Beller said that needs to be discussed. Schumpert said if the Council wants this as an
initiative they will do it.
Purcell said the Council is talking about commercial rates. Schumpert said they are
talking about across the board. Purcell said they need to look at the rates they are under
on commercial rates because when they talk about some of these big users that are
coming into Lawton they need to look at their commercial rates.
The Council members suggested a review of the commercial and industrial rates.
Shanklin asked if they would include Bar-S.
Purcell said it wouldn't be water rates.
Shanklin said they can make their cost what they want it to be.
Do a rate structure.
Building Development: Award for Staying Healthy
Do it.
Building Development: Late Charge for Inspection Fee Charge
Tucker said there are a number of persons who come in that owe a $10 to $20 fee for
inspections and they will wait up to 5 months to pay that when they need another
inspection even though they are sent notices and renewals every month. He said
instead of charging $10, if they were beyond the 15-day late period, the fee would be
$15 which is 50% of their inspection fee.
Purcell said it is a 50% increase not 150%, they would be multiplying it by 1.5%.
Do it.
Building Development: City Council Complaint/Information Clerk
Tucker said his secretary was concerned with the amount of time it takes the Council
members to take calls. He said they were discussing a city they had visited there they
had a City Council Office or City Council Clerk who the Council members called to ask
for messages, etc. which allowed those persons during the day to get in touch with
someone who represented their council member. He said that is not to say that is not
happening now through many different City offices.
Rench said the City Clerk's Office does that right now and is the City Clerk's job.
Purcell said the City Clerk's Office is already doing that.
Tucker said they call different City offices, they approached this not from a budget
standpoint, but from a standpoint of how things could be done better.
Purcell said they have three people who support the Council pretty well on this. Beller
said the City Clerk's Office and City Council work very well together.
Mayor Marley said the Council members get E-mail through the City Clerk's office a lot
also.
No.
Building Development: Video Cameras
Tucker said they have four major entrances to City Hall with a lot of people coming in
and for less than $700 they could put a surveillance camera at each door and maintain a
record of who is doing what to whom at their entrances.
Williams asked who would view the video cameras.
Purcell said he didn't know they ever had any problems.
Schumpert said the one for Municipal Court is monitored out of the Communications
Center and that is the only place that is manned 24 hours a day and assumed that
would be where this would be, if they had four entrances they would have five monitors
in Communications to be viewed.
Purcell asked how many problems they have had in City Hall that they would need the
cameras for. Schumpert said one, and he is out there daily.
No.
Building Development: City Wide Paging System
Tucker said after a discussion with Ken Graalum this is not feasible because the cost
would be for a local paging system within one structure, it would not save any money or
do them any good.
No.
Building Development: Implementation of Interactive Voice Response Inspection System
Tucker said this is a system where if you called him for a plumbing inspection which he
did he could come back and provide specific information of what was found and what
needed to be corrected. The inspection information could be accessed through a pin
number 24 hours a day. He said at the current time if there is corrective action to be
taken they reject it, write down the Code and the reference, stick it on the inspection, the
contractor has to go back out to determine what is required and then call back for an
additional inspection and this provides an automated inspection.
Shanklin said that wouldn't give any guarantee that the inspector would be there at the
right time and has seen this problem occur quite often. Tucker said that was correct, the
reason is that they may get four people who call wanting and inspection at 4:00 p.m.
and you don't have a means to get back with the other three because they are already
out on a site so they can't tell them they can't get to them at that time or the time they
would be able to be there.
Williams asked if the existing telephone system has any of those capabilities that can be
added to it. Tucker said it does not.
Warren said they could accomplish this for about $150 with a computer answering
system by creating mail boxes and providing pin numbers to contractors if you have a
computer and phone line already.
Tucker said they have requested capital outlay in their budget which is tentatively there
and machines that would allow them to develop this in-house.
Maybe.
Parks & Recreation, Sport Maintenance: Additional 2 full-time Laborers and Decrease 5
part-time Laborers.
Dick Huck said currently they have 2 full-time people in Sport Maintenance and they hire
approximately 10 seasonal for a 3-month or 6-month period depending on their
particular task. He said over the past several years they have had a difficult time
keeping and recruiting these positions due to the short employment time and during that
time period those persons hired are looking for a full-time job. Last year they replaced
one 6-month position 3 times and the same problem occurs in the 3-month positions so
when you look at the effectiveness and productivity of these people it is very minimal.
What they are proposing in this initiative is 2 full-time laborers which will replace 5
seasonal personnel at an additional cost of approximately $1,625. He said they can be
more efficient and more effective with 4 full-time people as well as 4 seasonal workers
as they are now with the 2 full-time and 10 part-time.
Warren said he wouldn't want to have a request come back for additional part time
seasonal workers. Huck said he has had some discussions with Schumpert regarding
increased programs and activities and facilities but with the current facility load this is a
viable and positive approach and can work smarter and more efficient.
Do it.
Parks & Recreation, Recreation Services: (Ages 9-18 yrs) Audio/Video Activities and
Supervised Games/Tournaments and concessions.
Huck said this and the next item are for increased activities for the youth in their
community. He said approximately 3½ years ago they initiated a program called "Friday
Night Live" on Saturday nights and contracted this service for approximately 2½ years
but the contract was not renewed. During the past several months they have tried to find
other privatization for this program without any success. Their recreation staff has the
ability to do this but there are up-front costs, fees and charges related to it from the fees
that are charged for the program. The initiative would be an actual zero cost for this
program but it will be geared not only for the 9-14 age group which they were doing with
the "Friday Night Live" but would include a program for the 15-18 age group as well. He
said they would support this and with this type of program the fees they collect would
offset the cost of the program so it would be an in and out cost balance.
Warren asked if the start up cost would only be $5,000.
Huck said currently that could be taken from the revenue regenerated in those last
couple of years with the "Friday Night Live" they had on contract which is in the
Recreation Cash Fund to initiate this program until it gets into a positive cash flow.
Williams asked where this would be located. Huck said it would be located at the three
community centers, Patterson, King Center, and Owen's on a rotation basis, based on
the year.
Williams said he liked this type of program.
Green said she went out several times to the "Friday Night Live" and thought it was a
good activity for their youth. She said the list shows a DJ would be available so there
would probably be dancing and asked if there would be games like those that were
provided by "Friday Night Live." Huck said yes, those are some of the costs in the
supplies and there are some at the locations that are being used in other activities
throughout the year in their summer programming and there is a wear-our cost for
replacement periodically throughout the year.
Green said when the children pay and are in the building they can't go in and out. Huck
said it is basically a lock-in type program, especially with those children who are under
14 where the parent, guardian or an adult checks them in and they don't leave until they
are checked out. He said with the older teenagers they will probably have a different
type of situation but it won't be an in and out type of thing, if they leave they won't be
able to come back in on that night.
Green asked if there would be tokens. Huck said yes, they would deal with the tokens
and some of those issues.
Purcell asked if the $5,000 is already in their budget. Huck said they have $5,000 they
did not earmark that is in their reserve fund in the recreation cash fund to deal with
unaffected areas.
Do it.
Parks & Recreation, Recreation Services: Focus on additional program ideas for the FY
97-98 Budget.
Huck said the activities are non-fee generated and deal with some special events. He
said they are adding two additional summer playground programs that take place at the
outreach areas of school sites and are broken down to the cost's for each program.
Williams asked if any of these could be co-opped either through the City and local
businesses and/or the City and Ft. Sill. Huck said they are doing a pilot project this year
with their summer track program on a much smaller scale than this to get some
experience, they don't know if they should charge a fee, such as a $1 entry fee to
participate as they do in some of their sports programs to off set some of the costs such
as t-shirts, etc. but they could get some businesses to co-op those. Right they are trying
to co-op the costs now that they will do this summer. He said they really have to go out
and see if they can get sponsors for some of these but there is that possibility. If they
were able to co-op the cost would be reduced appropriately.
Williams said there are probably businesses out there that would be more than glad to
work with them, civic organizations, etc. Huck said that is a possibility but there is that
cost up front and whether or not those can be cost shared at this point he didn't know.
Green said incorporating the businesses could probably happen next year and asked if
Huck is looking at these programs for this year. Huck said they were in a position for the
summer program but are really looking at 1998 and requested some indication as to
whether there is support to deal with these initiatives and bring them forth at a later date
if need be.
Council members were supportive with an IOU.
Shanklin asked if the school board charges the City when they play basketball and little
league at their schools and provide lights, he didn't think they did. Huck said there is no
cost, the City bears the custodial cost to hire someone to open and close the building.
Huck said the school board furnishes the facility, the utilities, the utilization of the
gymnasium as well as the summer school programs at no cost to the City.
Shanklin said he would hope they wouldn't go after that $12,000 because these costs
would far be exceeded if they wanted to provide a cost for those services.
Mayor Marley said he agreed, the library services is another addition because the school
library system is tied into the Public Library where the school library's can be used at no
cost to the City.
IOU
The Council recessed at 8:15 and returned at 8:20 with roll call reflecting all members
present who were present at the beginning of the meeting with the exception of Shanklin
who returned shortly after the roll call.
Public Works/Engineering, Engineering Division: GIS Map Updates.
Mike Johnson said this initiative requires an additional person who would help complete
some of their GIS work to include the storm drainage layer, maybe the water system
layer and to start a right of way layer which would contain the easements and the city
properties, etc. He said they use this information daily and when the prison was trying to
decide on a location they were able to provide the city's major water and sewer lines,
flood plain and other information and by having it on computer they were able to
produce those types of maps on relatively short notice. He said they can make changes,
add information and whatever layers that are needed, storm sewer, school system
boundaries, many things that are needed. This position would help provide the man-hours needed to continue
with that.
Warren asked Purcell if Cameron had that type of program available where they would
want to put someone. Purcell said he would think the technology department, Tom
Sutherland, may be someone they could talk to about this project. Williams said possibly
an OSU graduate.
Johnson said they have someone who is a junior in Civil Engineering that is coming
down this Summer who will work for free and will be working on the GIS program but not
on this particular item.
Maybe.
Public Works/Engineering, Engineering Division: Engineering inspection fees
Johnson said this proposal is to provide inspection fees for public works improvements
that would be dedicated to the city, the streets, water and sewer lines, and other
infrastructure improvements and would primarily be subdivision improvements dedicated
through the subdivision process. Generally the fee is 2% of the construction cost, so on
$1 million of construction it would be $20,000 in fees payable to the City.
Williams asked if other communities are doing this presently. Johnson said most other
communities do, Edmond, Midwest City and Norman were some of those they talked to.
Williams asked if they are doing it for about the same percentage. Johnson said yes.
Purcell asked if they are doing nothing now and are proposing to do this.
Beller said they are at the bottom of the list with other charges and can't see why they
can't get in line with other cities. He said they will get the opposition and they will need to
stand their ground because it is time they got a reasonable fee for reasonable services.
Williams asked if these fees would just be on infrastructure that are deeded back to the
City. Johnson said it would be on items that are dedicated back to the City, there
wouldn't be a charge on those the City does where they have contracts, it would be for
subdivision improvements such as water and sewer, etc.
Williams asked what a typical cost would be for a planned development when they talk
about streets, water and sewer lines. Johnson said he doesn't have an idea right now of
what the cost would be. Williams said the developer will just pass it on by adding it to
the cost of the property and the home and they have some of the highest home prices in
the State already but didn't have a problem with it.
Do it.
Public Works/Engineering, Solid Waste Collection: Separate collection of household
refuse and yard waste.
Ronnie Graves said this is basically a once a week pick up for residential waste and
once a week pick up for yard waste. It is has been determined that they could cut back
on 13 crew members by going from 3-man crews to 2-man crews, however, during the
growing season where there is a lot of yard waste they would have to hire 13 laborers
from a temporary labor source to supplement the heavy load during the grass growing
season.
Williams asked if the reduction of the landfill by 20% would be all. Graves said they felt
the annual percentage of yard waste that goes to the landfill is 20%.
Shanklin said he can bring in something that shows it is 20%, 60% and 80%. Graves
said during the growing season the percentage increase being taken to the landfill is
approximately 60% but looking at it over the whole year it is 20%.
Williams asked if the yard waste would go to Ft. Sill. Schumpert said that would depend
on what they do with the next item.
Williams said a couple years ago this passed and they were getting prepared to go
through with it and a new Council came in and stopped it, once a week trash and yard
waste is a deal.
Shanklin asked what day they would pick up yard waste. Graves said it would be the
first pick up and the second day would be the household trash, it would take two days to
cover the City.
Beller asked if they would reduce the charges of garbage pick up. He said he couldn't
believe they would only be picking up the household waste once a week and couldn't
agree because families produce household waste.
Williams said people in the rural areas only have once a week trash pick up and pay
higher charges. Beller disagreed and couldn't agree that the Council would reduce the
pick up of household waste. Williams said they only reduce the amount of times they
pick up the household waste they would be picking up the same amount. Beller said it is
a bad idea and if they do it they are wrong and people will be lined up at the podium.
Sadler said he was on the Council when this was approved and although he didn't see it
as a reduction because they had been picking up 100% of their trash before and would
still be picking up 100% just at a delayed time it was true that people were talking about
a reduction in services, more flies and more problems so Council backed off and didn't
do it but. He said they should find a way to recycle and get it out of the landfill but it was
a matter of economics as to whether they wanted to go to three times a week with one
for yard waste and that was the debate that caused it to shut down.
Beller said they are also talking about contract labor and cutting the force of employees
who need their jobs maybe worse than anyone in Lawton. He said this would cut 13
employees and hire contract labor which is a bad idea and hopes they can get the
majority to agree to it being a bad idea and his opinion on this item is "no."
Williams said the reduction would probably be through attrition and that is going to
happen. Beller said the initiative includes that attrition is not a viable option.
Schumpert said this item is in the singular division and is not including the rest of public
works in its whole and he didn't think they would do anything to cost a good employee
his job, and didn't see any lay offs occurring because public works is one of their largest
employee divisions. He said when you look at Public Works as a whole, attrition is a
method that can be used because they have certainly replaced more than 13 employees
each year.
Beller asked if they would be contracting with Ft. Sill to take the yard waste, or will they
just let them take it out there and dump it. Schumpert said at the time they were
discussing this option with Ft. Sill they were needing greenware to make their compost
operation work, and they haven't talked to them, the trade off is that the City would
probably not get any of that back. The benefit to Ft. Sill is that they would gain
greenware to make compost that they use out on their ranges, etc. and he anticipated
that they would be able to haul it out there free.
Purcell said several years ago when the Council decided to change from picking the
trash up from the house side and made everyone place it on the curb they thought the
world was going to come to an end and it didn't and now everyone is used to it with a
few exceptions and there will always be exceptions. He said they have to do things that
may not be popular but what is best for the community as a whole to save money and
he doesn't think there is a major problem with picking up garbage once a week in terms
of non-grass clippings, etc., they are still picking up the same amount of garbage in one
week. He said it just means you may have to buy an extra garbage can or whatever and
by doing this they are extending the life of the landfill and being good stewards of the
earth or whatever by doing this recycling. He said they have to bite the bullet and take a
good hard look and can support this.
Mayor Marley said he would like to see a test done which is the easiest way to do things
like this, go out on a 90-day test pattern so they can see how it works internally and
would get an external report because people are going to come back with whatever
comments they may have and doesn't agree they should just "do it" immediately.
Shanklin said he agreed and was on the Council when they decided to pick it up at the
curb and it came out well and those that want it picked up can pay an extra $3 and have
it picked up beside the house. He said there is a great inequity between some people
putting out two garbage bags a week and the City picking up 60 to 100 bags of grass
clippings at one individual place. He said they need a test site, they can't this do all at
one time and doesn't know what areas to test, that would be left up to staff. He said they
also need to sell the biodegradable bags and a fee for over 5 bags because there are
those who put out 45 or 50 bags and he doesn't put out any. He said there are city's that
make you mulch and they won't pick up any of it and they need to promote mulching.
Warren said he would like to put this and the next item on hold until they can look at
composting again. He said when he first came on the Council they had a meeting in
reference to composting with 3 or 4 different scenarios and went out with an RFP.
Schumpert reviewed the results of the RFP's received at that time and said composting
sounded like the thing to do and that people should get into it and agreed to a point but
the reality of the cost differential was 15%, that was all they would save because they
would save 75% by the grinding but the numbers don't come together when you would
be spending $6 to $8 million to do it. He said the first step in composting is the
separation and they have an initiative that if they do grinding it would be to mix their yard
waste with their daily cover, they would still want it separated but instead of taking it to
Ft. Sill they would retain it and use it for part of their cover. It sounds wonderful and
works wonderful but the numbers don't come together.
Williams said he liked the grinding and this initiative and it works hand in hand with once
a week trash and once a week yard waste. He said he didn't know if they would lose 13
employees but it appeared to him that they would be hiring one additional employee for
the solid waste collection initiative. He asked Graves if they couldn't start taking the
grease from the restaurants that they are presently not taking and do something with
that and there is a good opportunity for other communities they are not presently
working with on their landfill to reach out to them. They have a big hole in the ground
and a lot of land around the landfill and could be a regional center for solid waste, they
are somewhat that now but this could be a money making deal and they truly need to
explore that option not only here in their own back yard and the immediate areas around
them but also in communities that are in Southwest Oklahoma because there are
already some people that are doing this and making money.
Mayor Marley said they are already working with Duncan and Marlow on that same
initiative.
Beller said if they get this moving along Shanklin has an excellent idea on selling the
biodegradable bags for these folks that have 30 and 40 bags setting at the curb side
and if they can work with them to accomplish that problem that is a step in the right
direction but doesn't know how they can do it. He said he didn't think it was a good idea
to start with once a week collection of household waste, they need to concentrate on
getting through the growing season and getting rid of those clippings.
Williams said he would like to see them do a test site once a week.
Shanklin said he thinks Norman has one pick up a week with grass clippings. He said
the first thing they need to know is what they are going to do with the grass clippings,
determine whether or not Ft. Sill is going to accept them. He said the next thing would
be for the Mayor to appoint a committee, on which he would serve, to speak with staff,
spend a day or two days driving around town and looking at the maps to see where they
could initiate a pilot program, they need to try.
Beller said Old Town North is a compact site and would probably be a good place to
start, there wouldn't be a lot of driving and could try it there once a week to see if that
would work.
Shanklin said once a week every place there is an alley pick up and there are some in
Wards 3, 5 and 1, those on the East side of town would be picked up on the sidewalk.
Green asked for how long they would do this. Shanklin said that could be determined by
what the Council does and look at it.
Warren asked if using grass clippings as cover is only an option if they grind. Schumpert
said they don't have the equipment to mix it to a medium that will make it viable. Graves
said using the grass clippings for cover they would need something to mix it.
Beller asked if there is a commercial or an industrial type of landfill operation for grass
clippings now out on Cache Road. Shanklin said they went out to look at that landfill
which is past 112th Street and is in the County. Beller asked if they can contract with
those people if it is for lawn clippings because from what he saw it was lawn clippings,
tree branches and some other things.
Williams said they are in the trash hauling business and didn't know why they would
want to give that up. He said under this pilot program if they wanted to do a short term
deal with Ft. Sill to take it to Ft. Sill until they can determine whether or not they want to
grind it. He supported doing something different from what they have been doing, once
a week trash and yard waste, grinding it up to be used for cover and doing something
more than they are right now with the other communities around.
The Council members discussed possible areas and time frames for a test to be
conducted for picking up trash one day and grass clippings the second day.
Graves said one truck picks up approximately 1100 homes in one day and they want to
take a route rather than separate areas.
Beller asked if one truck would pick up 1100 homes if it is once a week and how many
trips will that truck make back and forth. He said the volume is going to double if you are
only picking it up once a week. Graves said they will be using the same number of
trucks, 2 people instead of 3 with the same amount of houses and waste per day. Beller
said they are going to work 2 people a little harder and asked why they can't do this with
the police and fire departments. He said it is a bad idea and if they nurture it here it is a
worse idea, it won't work.
Several Council members agreed to try it.
Schumpert said it will work because it is working in tons of other communities.
Sadler said they are going to have to publicize it so the public understands what is going
on. Schumpert said they would have to place door hangers on the homes of the
effective dates because advertising wouldn't work.
Mayor Marley said they could do the whole City for a 90-day test period which would
allow them to know if it going to work or not.
Beller suggested voting on a city wide collection.
Williams said Bill Baker was working in Public Works and had some area of
responsibility when this came up before and asked him if he could address an area
versus the whole city for a period of time.
Bill Baker said if Council wants to do a pilot, due to the number of ways it can be done,
suggested asking staff to come up with a proposal to be brought back to Council and
then decide whether or not to do it. He said different parts of town generate different
amounts of yard waste, Old Town North generates quite a bit of tree limbs because of
the trees but it doesn't generate a lot of grass, the far west and east generate most of
the grass but if staff was asked to bring back a proposal for a pilot program they could
evaluate it and decide at that time.
Mayor Marley asked if they could have an item for the next Council meeting so they
could vote on it.
Baker said if they are going to do a pilot they need to do it for at least 90 days to see if it
will work and do it during the Summer months, July, August and September.
The Council members agreed.
Public Works/Engineering, Solid Waste Disposal: Establishing a license for commercial
landscapers and lawn mowing businesses and separating yard waste from the typical
homeowners yard waste.
Schumpert said they now have a number of individuals who are in the grass mowing
business and the City of Lawton is in the hauling it away for them business. He said
even if they don't agree to taking the grass clippings to Ft. Sill it would still be good to
have these individuals who are in the business and charging the homeowner to do this
to have them responsible for hauling it someplace as opposed to the City hauling it
because the City isn't getting their share for hauling it away for them.
Williams asked if they would charge a $15 fee and then charge them for taking their
yard waste to the landfill.
Warren asked if they could give them a dump it for nothing after they pay for the permit.
Schumpert said the permit can be a dollar, they are trying to recoup what it is costing
them to haul it away. He said it could be some kind of sticker so when they see an
individual putting all of this grass on the curb they can tag it and if they don't have a
sticker they are in violation and if they have one they know who to get in touch with.
Warren said they could make it $50 with free dumps.
Schumpert said they don't have any clue as to how many they would have, they are just
trying to get a handle on who is out there doing this as a business and who isn't.
Williams asked how they would enforce a commercial landscaping person who mows
someone's yard, puts a dozen bags on the street and leaves, the inspector will see the
bags but he won't know if the homeowner did it or someone else. Schumpert said he
wouldn't know if the person leaves but as their people go through the area and see an
individual doing it that is when you would inquire.
Warren said that is why they should charge a decent amount so they wouldn't have to
worry about that part.
Purcell said this may be a good idea but suggested they put it on hold until they do the
90-day trial and come back and look at it again or do it all at one time. The other thing
may take care of it.
To be discussed at a later date.
Public Works/Engineering, Solid Waste Disposal (Landfill): Reduce volume of space to
be utilized in the Landfill by approximately 50%, thus increasing the life expectancy by
two-fold, 15 years to 30 years.
Maybe.
Public Works/Engineering, Wastewater Treatment Plant: Transportation of sludge to the
Landfill.
Graves said the County rebuilt one bridge by Cache Creek and is now rebuilding the
bridge between the plant and the landfill. He said once the bridge is completed they will
be within 2½ miles of the landfill to transport the sludge instead of driving 18 miles one
way and 36 miles round trip as they do now, it will be 5 miles round trip. He said it won't
cost the City anything and will save approximately $4,000. He said currently they have to
go to Lusk to weigh drive 18 miles to the landfill with a 2½ mile trip back, once they get
the scales at the landfill they can weigh the trailers there and double the savings.
Williams asked if the scales are coming. Graves said Livingston spoke to the Council a
little about those tonight but does not know where they are on the scales.
Schumpert said it is the next item.
Sadler asked what the time line is on the bridge construction. Graves said he hasn't
spoke with the County but it will probably be within the next 90 to 120 days.
Williams said they can use the savings on this to offset the cost of the scales.
Do it.
Public Works/Engineering, Wastewater Treatment Plant: Weighing of Sludge Trailers.
Graves said they will spend approximately $60,000 and will save $1,800 for what they
are paying Lusk to weigh the sludge. Purcell asked if they would need $60,000. Graves
said that is the estimated cost of the scales.
Schumpert said transportation is really one they have no control over.
Shanklin asked if they have to weigh the sludge. Graves said yes it is State law.
Do it.
Public Works/Engineering, Water Treatment Plant: Certify Laboratory with ODEQ.
Graves said the lab at the Water Treatment Plant is not certified by the State, they have
always taken and sent the samples to the State to do the Bac-T analysis on their water.
He said they are required to do a minimum of 100 samples per month at $10 per sample
and anytime they have a bad sample they have to do a retake so they average about
1,800 samples a year costing approximately $15,000 on Bac-T samples with DEQ
laboratories. He said if they were to certify their laboratory which requires hiring an
additional chemist, they could recover the $15,000 immediately and within 5 years the
chemist will pay for itself totally in the additional testing they are going to be required to
do within that time which if they don't have the chemist they will have to send those out
to an outside laboratory.
Mayor Marley asked if they could go to Duncan or those places and have them come
through the City. Graves said there is a potential for additional revenue because all of
the rural water districts and smaller communities send them to Oklahoma City the same
as the City does and it would be cheaper and quicker to bring them to the City's plant.
Williams asked if they don't already have a chemist. Graves said they have never had a
chemist at the Water Treatment Plant, all of the analytical work they do is control testing
and that has been done by lab technicians, certified by the State, as a lab tech but are
not chemists. He said Brenda Romano is a chemist at the Wastewater Treatment Plant
and this request is for the Water Treatment Plant.
Shanklin asked if they have a Council representative at ASCOG. Mayor Marley said yes,
he is the representative. Shanklin asked where they are on a regional landfill. Mayor
Marley said they started and the City backed out because they wanted to purchased the
City's landfill and make it a regional landfill, but the Council said no. Shanklin said he
had heard that they were going to start another one. Mayor Marley said no, Duncan and
Marlow have been talking with them because when they get out of their current contract
they want to come to Lawton with their landfill waste.
Purcell asked if they would have to spend a lot of money this year over and above the
$15,000. Graves said no, they requested this in their supplemental budget for additional
staff and they wouldn't bring this person on until approximately October. They would
only use this position for 6 months this year and would want it to be a full time position in
FY98-99.
Purcell said he was going to suggest they come back in the October time frame and see
if they would approve an extra position like they did other positions during the year and
then it will automatically be built into next year's budget as they did this year. Schumpert
said the Council needs to decide whether they want to fund a 12-month or 6-month
position this year. Purcell said no, they don't want to do anything, come back in the
normal cycle with the request for the position and then if it is approved it will naturally
flow into the FY98-99 budget.
Schumpert asked why they wouldn't put the position in for 6 months, the 14 additional
positions in the budget now were all approved in the budget based on coming on line at
differing time lines throughout the fiscal year. He said if they make it full time in October
then next year they will automatically be in the next fiscal budget.
Warren suggested 3 months.
Beller asked if the chemist has to be on the site at this location for certification. Graves
said no, but there are two things they are trying to do; for the last two years they have
been purchasing the equipment to equip the laboratory for Bac-T testing and things of
that nature; and then, in order for them to do the Bac-T testing, they have to get their
laboratory certified which means DEQ will inspect the laboratory for proper equipment
and calibration required to do the testing. He said once the lab passes the inspection
DEQ will certify the laboratory and then they will have to have a certified chemist with a
minimum B laboratory certification from DEQ to do the analytical testing. He said it
doesn't have to be a chemist but they are better off with a chemist because of all the
other exotic testing they will eventually be required to do.
Williams asked if Romano could do that. Graves said she is at the Wastewater
Treatment Plant. Warren asked if they couldn't combine the two. Graves said he and
Schumpert have discussed combining the laboratories but they don't want to mix
potable water samples with wastewater laboratory samples because the potential for
contamination is too great.
Warren asked if the same chemist couldn't go between both locations. Graves said
there isn't time, they are loaded with what they are doing now and don't have time to go
to the water plant, at a minimum there will be 33 samples a week, they do their own
collection as well. He said two years ago they never touched the samples, they paid
someone $7,000 a year to take them and then paid to have the analytical work done in
Oklahoma City. Schumpert said they then paid $7,000 to publish a 90-day notice
because they had failures. Graves said due to that he visited with Schumpert and they
came up with the plan to take over the sampling themselves, because they could do it
cheaper than $7,000, and the failure has disappeared, they have not paid any
notification fines since they took control of the sampling. He said he now wants to take
control of the analytical testing which will automatically save them $15,000 a year on
Bac-T alone and will pay half the employee's salary. He said 5 years from now, with all
the additional testing they are going to be required to do, the money they will save to
pay outside contract laboratories will pay for that position.
Do it in 6 months.
Public Works/Engineering, Wastewater Collection Division: Purchase of mechanical
equipment to reduce the manpower requirements on the stoppage crews.
Williams asked if when they are doing their 5-year clean outs and check test doesn't
some of this happen with that. Graves said yes, the next initiative is the maintenance
side of the house which is the 5-year cleaning program. He said this is on the collection
side which they have always had, they currently operate 3-man crews and with this
initiative they would be purchasing equipment to allow them to go to 2-man crews. He
said they are not recommending they reduce the staff, this change will allow them to
have more crews in the field at quicker response times and can be more productive by
purchasing this equipment. He said it also has the potential of significantly reducing
injuries which result in Workers' Compensation claims because they are getting away
from physical labor and going to mechanical operation with push button instead of
turning a crank or feeding a rod through the motor.
Beller said it would also be more efficient. Graves said it would be more efficient and
more effective and will do a better job in cleaning.
Shanklin said this is what he was talking about in rolling stock that they wanted to get
equipment to work with a year ago and rolling stock kept them from buying that but this
should be included in the $3 surcharge and should be bought. He asked Baker what the
Workers' Compensation claims have been over the past 5 years in Solid Waste. Baker
said he would have to research that information.
Purcell asked if the rodders were what they had approved at the last meeting. Graves
said those were the easement rodders. Schumpert said in the budget for Wastewater
Collection they show 2 easement rodders for this next year, 4 root saws, 4 head sets,
and a jack hammer and asked if those are the same items. Graves said yes, this is
requested in the 97-98 budget. Schumpert said if it is in the budget it shouldn't be in the
initiative.
Purcell said they just approved the specifications for those items that are in the budget.
Graves said since this is in the FY97-98 budget asked if they shouldn't be discussing
this item. Schumpert said that was correct.
Public Works/Engineering, Wastewater Maintenance Division: Televising of sewer lines.
Graves said this initiative is in the FY97-98 budget.
Williams asked if they have a camera already. Graves said no.
Public Works/Engineering, Water Distribution Division: Water Distribution Management
Program, Purchase Water Distribution System Software.
Graves said this initiative is proposed for the FY 98-99 budget.
Maybe.
Shanklin asked if they shouldn't wait on the camera until they actually determine how
they are going to do the S & I because they may want to do that in-house, because if
they are going to spend $60 million he doesn't think they need to put that out for bid, the
maintenance crew and the rehab crew should fit hand in hand.
Purcell said they still need the camera to do it. Shanklin said they would need the
camera for sure, they could take it out of the budget and use it in the $60 million they
are going to have to come up with, they don't need it right now. Purcell asked if they
aren't going to need it next year for maintenance to start the 5-year maintenance
program.
Graves said they need to know how good of job they have done when they clean the
line, then when they televise it they will be able to see what is in the line and if it is roots
they will go in with the saws and the flush and will then televise it again to see if they got
it all. He said they want to make sure they identify any defects that may be there so they
can get the construction crew to correct it.
Public Works/Engineering, Water Distribution Division: Purchase of an additional
backhoe to be used by the Leak Maintenance Crew.
This initiative for a backhoe is in the budget.
Public Works/Engineering, Water Distribution Division: Yard Restoration Crew.
Graves said the one-ton truck is in the budget, the people were in the supplemental. He
said the $69,000 includes the two additional personnel that are not in the budget.
Public Works/Engineering, Water Distribution Division: Yard Clean Up Crew.
Graves said this backhoe was requested in the budget but it did not make it in the
budget and the people were in the supplemental. He said this initiative would assist in
keeping up with the yard clean ups because they go through cycles with numerous
breaks because when it is real dry and the ground starts moving, cracking and shifting,
a large number of breaks occur creating a large back log.
Shanklin said they can work these people at night and on the weekends, not necessarily
with overtime, and use the same backhoe, they are getting loaded down with equipment
and will have more equipment than crews. He said they don't just have to work from
8:00 to 5:00 when they run into those with overtime or weekends. Graves said they are
currently running two shifts, a day shift and evening shift that works in the field from 3:00
p.m. to 11:00 p.m. five days a week. They have also started a weekend shift where
there is a full crew on duty at the work place, being productive, Saturday from 8:00 to
4:00 and Sunday from 8:00 to 4:00 which was not there before so they are running 7
days a week for water distribution. He said they have the same thing occurring on the
sewer side. Shanklin said they need to inform the citizens of that because this shows
the deterioration they are approaching. Graves said they have 2 crews on the water and
sewer and has a 7 day operation on sewer which is straight time and are doing the
same thing on the water side and this has made a difference.
Schumpert said there are now two independent operations.
Graves said their weakest link now is on taking care of the number of yards they tear up
in town which is their biggest complaint and they are doing the best they can with the
staff and equipment they have.
Green said the response in her neighborhood has been exceptionally good and the
neighbors appreciate it.
Police: Reserve Officer Program.
Bill Adamson said many years ago the Police Department had a reserve officer program
and they would like to do that again. He said they would like to start out with 20 which
would be certified as reserve officers; they would be armed and would look like the other
police officers; and would be voluntary with no cost to the City for salaries. He said they
would be able to work and perform all police functions just as a regular commissioned
police officer would and would be riding with a full-time police officer when they are
actually on patrol duties and at the same time they would be able to use these
volunteers for special assignments such as parades, large gatherings, etc. He said it
would be a way to be able to have 20 volunteers willing to work 20 or so hours per
month at different times.
He said the Military Police are interested in this program so they may be able to draw
some volunteers from the MP's at Ft. Sill because it would benefit them in many ways
including toward their training because all of these volunteers have to have and
graduate from a minimum 120-hour reserve officer CLEET course. They currently have
some officers who are trained to conduct the program. The expense to the City will be
for the radios, hand weapons, uniforms, Workmans' Compensation, and physical and
psychological examinations as any of the other officers they would hire. He said $68,000
is a lot money but it is certainly something that deserves serious consideration.
Shanklin said he isn't for it because they just got 5 lawsuits from an individual who was
an employee and these are people that want to do it for nothing and the reason it was
disbanded in years past. He said if they get a good one it is a good deal but if they get a
bad one they can have more problems, they don't get them cheap, it will get them more
lawsuits and heads banged up from people that are not on the payroll.
Warren said they would be riding with Lawton Police Officers, they won't be out there on
their own. Shanklin said they will be on their own and if the officers need company they
should go with 2-man crews and not wait for 30 to 35 minutes for back ups.
Adamson said they would be on patrol duty and would be with a full time officer for one
on one supervision and monitoring etc. He said he agreed with Shanklin but the same is
true for police officers on the payroll if they get the wrong one they have problems and
the department has demonstrated its willingness to take care of those sorts of problems.
Beller asked if the Sheriff's Department still used the reserves to a great extent.
Adamson that was correct.
Beller said this program would be worth a try and $68,000 is a small price to pay for 30
extra police officers, there are times when they may need them when thinking of the
additional activities coming into the Lawton area and if they need them they will be
there.
Adamson said they are currently working on a relationship with the MP's but this is not
intended to be restricted to MP's.
Do It.
Williams said in past discussions Adamson had mentioned that he would like to get
away from having officers man some of the administrative duties at the Police station
and asked if he is working towards that and is it in his budget for this coming year.
Adamson said there are no positions at this time that are going to be moved into the
field from the station, they have, over the past few years, moved a lot of people out of
the station and right now they have a full time officer working the front desk 24 hours a
day but reason he is unable to move that position because it would be too dangerous
with the jail facility upstairs.
Police: Mobile Data Terminals for Marked Police Cars.
This initiative had been discussed earlier with the Communications initiatives.
Police: Vehicle Video Surveillance Systems for Marked Police Cars.
Adamson said one of the reasons they thought of this was because of an inquiry from a
member of the Council for tape recordings and so forth of officers for the officer's
benefit and protection. These devices also have the ability to record voice recordings
from a wireless the officer would wear on his uniform within a certain distance of the
vehicle. It is a safety measure which would allow officers to be exonerated from
complaints because it would show the officer's activities. He said a few years ago they
had allegations against a police officer regarding the treatment of a citizen and when the
tape was reviewed he found the police officer had done everything to the book. He said
this is a wish list.
Purcell said he has seen how this works and asked if this is an area where they could
apply for a grant. Adamson said there is another grant they may be able to apply for
similar to the one they just received for police vehicles. Ronnie Ward said they don't
know when they may qualify for any given grant, they are notified if they do qualify and
at that point can apply for that grant.
Warren said he would like to see them put some type of program together to purchase
them over a period of time. Adamson said they could possibly phase it in by adding it
into the initial cost of a vehicle.
Beller asked what account it is that these would be purchased from. Adamson said it
would be out of the Capital Outlay.
Williams said $3,000 for each unit seems to be expensive for a device that is as useful
as it seems to be. Adamson said that price may be a little high depending on how many
they purchase.
Purcell said there are 20 police cars in the budget under rolling stock and asked if they
couldn't give some consideration to these this year even if they have to reduce that
number and order them with that item in them if it is cheaper and, if not; reduce the
number of cars purchased to 19 and use the money from the additional car for
installation of these devices and work on a grant for the remaining.
Shanklin said he had made a suggestions to Adamson regarding Norman having $220
tape recorders they can click on. He said some of Lawton's officers carry them to
protect themselves so if someone comes in relating a conversation the officer can
provide the tape to Adamson as to what was said and is a viable alternative to a video.
Beller said they should work toward the cameras in the budgets because it can change
the attitude of the officers and the people they stop.
Police: Combined City-County Law Enforcement Facility
Adamson said this is a long-range plan and looking at the age of the building and its
being open 24 hours a day, it is showing its wear and tear. He said the County is in need
of more jail space and this is something he wanted the Council to think about because it
is going to take some coordination and cooperation between the County Commissioners
and the City Council to determine funding. He said there are a lot of benefits even if they
don't merge the departments as has been suggested, if they move into a building and
share the space for the jail etc. it would be a lot better.
Williams asked where they are with the County regarding this issue. Schumpert said this
issue died when DHS built a new facility. Williams asked what the possibility is for
resurrecting it. Schumpert said the Council will have to get with the County
Commissioners and deal with it because the City Staff can't make it happen at their
level.
Warren said the people in the County would gain services available because they are
duplicating so many operations from communication to jail, etc. and the money would be
better spent if it was all pooled into one operation.
Williams said he would be willing to attend a County meeting and talk it up, one of the
Commissioners is in favor of doing this also.
Mayor Marley said when you look at the dollar figure he doesn't know if they can handle
that because of the amount of other economic development that is needed.
Williams said this may be something that Wackenhut may get involved in. Mayor Marley
said that is going to be a State deal and may not want to do that. Williams asked if they
operate a City/County jail in San Antonio. Mayor Marley said they do and they can talk to
them but doesn't know if anything would come of it. Beller said when they were in
Oklahoma City they had asked if they could house prisoners from the City and County at
that facility and it was something most of them were not interested in unless it was a
large operation. Purcell said there is a big difference between a prison and a jail. Beller
said a merge between the City and County would be an idea worth pursuing.
Warren said there is going to be a new jail built and they could work together on getting
to that end.
No.
Police: Department Dictation System
Ronnie Ward said this initiative relates to how they do business with the detective
division where they had a trial program which has worked very successfully. He said the
dictation system has freed the detectives from the typewriters and offices to a great
extent which has allowed them to go out and investigate cases rather than doing the
clerical work. He said they discussed a voice mail system which has to do with
detectives needing to talk to a victim, witness or suspect who may call and the detective
may end up playing telephone tag trying to reach the person. He said this system would
allow paging so the detective could immediately call back to the office and determine
whether to make the call right away or wait until they get back to the station. He said
they started with that concept and have been running that pilot program for most of
1997, several detectives have commented on how effective the assistance has been to
their investigations. He said they started checking into this further and the system is
available for secretary's to type the follow-ups but actually dictate office reports, arrest
reports and confidential follow-up reports which would eliminate a lot of their filing
system. He said it wouldn't be a paperless system but it would be a less paper system
and a more efficient system.
Ward said in talking with one vendor they could purchase this system on a lease
purchase for about $23,000 a year for a 5-year period. He said if they don't purchase
this and continue with the detective program they have started they will need an
additional secretary as requested in the supplemental budget.
Purcell said the proposal on page 2 states that a new employee won't be needed but
later they do need an employee and asked if they are substituting the request for a new
employee for detectives division with a transcriber employee. Ward said they can buy
the system for the same amount of money as they would be paying for a secretarial
position if they only do the detective transcribing because the system will allow for more
efficient use of manpower. He said they have an employee on contract labor right now
for the pilot program and they either have to revert back to the system where all the
detectives are typists again instead of investigators, or they have to have a new
employee if they use the same equipment. He said for the cost of wages for a new
employee they can purchase this system and not need any new employees because the
system will allow the work to be spread out to as many as 6 different workstations for
access to type the next report that is on system.
Schumpert said the question is what Ward is asking to be put up for funding.
Purcell said for $37,400 they will no longer need the request in the supplemental for the
secretary in the detective division.
Ward said they are also coming up with $16,000, $5,000 from the law enforcement
block grants and $11,000 from the capital improvement funds in the 1992 CIP/COL
funds that have already been approved. Purcell said it would be an additional $21,400 to
implement this.
Do It ($21,390).
Fire: Relocation of Fire Station #2.
Williams asked if they are actually relocating the fire station at the airport to 17th Street.
Barrington said it would be to an existing facility, the old fire Station at 1701 Lee
Boulevard.
Beller asked what the intention is for the fire station at the airport. Barrington said the
station at the airport would have a contract for fire services.
Beller asked if they have discussed any of this with the FAA with regard to the
requirements of scheduled airlines landing. Barrington said if it is contracted out there
would be a crew there. Beller asked what would happen if it weren't contracted out.
Barrington said there would have to be an alternative for a separate fire service. Beller
said they seem to have failed to contact FAA regulations.
Mayor Marley said this needs more study, they need to talk to more entities other than
the Council and Barrington.
Barrington said Will Rogers International Airport in Oklahoma City has private fire
service contracted out.
Mayor Marley asked if they had contacted the Airport Authority. Barrington said no they
hadn't. Beller said they need to talk to the Airport Authority, the fire fighters association
and doesn't think that contracting would be acceptable. It is a great idea if it could
happen but they are required to have AARF on site when scheduled airlines land at the
airport. Williams asked who requires that. Beller said the FAA demands that of any
airport that has scheduled airlines landing at their facility. Mayor Marley said in this case
it would be Lawton, either through the Airport Authority or Council action. Beller said
FAA paid for the fire station at the airport.
Schumpert said FAA also paid for the truck and the other equipment, the City stationed
another engine company in that station, Barrington is proposing to leave the airport
equipment there and the Airport Authority would contract for the personnel. Beller asked
where the Airport Authority would get the funding. Schumpert said they would get it from
the City of Lawton and it would be the same as they do for other entities where they
fund the activity.
Mayor Marley asked what that would cost the City. Schumpert said they anticipate it not
costing any more than it costs the City to maintain the 3 shifts they now have.
Mayor Marley said it may not cost more but they are going to use the 3 shifts
somewhere else. Schumpert said the plan is that Barrington will gain an engine crew at
Station 2. Barrington said according to the study done by OSU that station is needed to
cover that area of town at 17th & Lee.
Schumpert said the cost to the City is however many fire fighters it takes to man that
station which is approximately 9 personnel. He said it is costing the City more than they
had anticipated it to cost to provide airport FAA required fire protection and is costing
more than it would if the airport contracted for the service.
Mayor Marley said they are still going to be paying those people because they will be
providing residential fire protection and will have to contract for the fire protection at the
airport, the cost will escalate.
Schumpert said the concern seems to be that the City is going to desert the airport and
FAA is not going to land planes there but that is not it, there would be a crew there to do
the airport, the additional cost and benefit to the citizens of Lawton is that Barrington will
have the ability to open another station to provide residential protection.
Shanklin asked if they are failing in the area of residential protection. Barrington said no,
this is just an initiative and is something that can be considered as to whether it is
feasible to develop a different type of plan, like contracting the fire protection to meet
FAA requirements for the airport. He said all they need is the equipment and a couple
people to meet FAA regulations and that would allow them to concentrate on the fire
service for the citizens by moving back to the station at 17th and Lee for the coverage of
that area.
Shanklin asked if this is what it costs to run that fire station. Barrington said yes
including the utilities and maintenance for the past year and since 1977.
Schumpert said to provide FAA approved or sanctioned fire protection at the airport the
fire protection will be provided by contracting it out and paying for it through an
agreement between the City and the Airport; the cost to the citizens is for those
individuals who are doing the residential fire protection at fire Station 2, but all it costs
them to go back to Station 2 is whatever it costs the City to contract with the Airport
Authority for protection at the airport because they are already paying for the engine
company.
Mayor Marley said it is still costing the City more money.
Schumpert said no, they get another station open by simply paying for a contract for the
fire protection at the airport.
Purcell asked what if the contract at the airport for fire protection costs $500,000.
Schumpert said then they would not do it.
Williams said he had talked to Barrington about the possibility of other communities
contracting out their fire protection at their airport and asked if it is a viable option for the
City of Lawton to provide another community fire protection for their airport. Barrington
said he doesn't know that it would because of the liability and doesn't think it would be
feasible for Duncan, for example, to pay them what they would need to have to do that.
Beller asked if they could send out requests for proposals to see what it would cost to
contract out fire services at the airport. Schumpert said he understood the Council
wanted a lot more information on this before they did anything with it. Beller asked if
they couldn't get that information by requesting proposals. Schumpert said he also
heard that they didn't want them to do RFP's if they didn't have a good intention of doing
something with it and thought the Council was requesting he and Barrington find out
what it costs in Oklahoma City and some other places to do a private contract and then
come back with the numbers of what it would cost to move to Station 2 and what they
perceive as being contracted and make a decision.
Shanklin asked if they can get qualified fire fighters that way. Schumpert said there are
a number of contracts for airport protection. Beller said that is a sizable employment and
they would probably need 8 or 9 people. Schumpert said there are companies that
provide fire protection.
Mayor Marley said if they are providing a fire service that is approved and sanctioned
now and it is moved what more would they be providing to the citizens. Schumpert said
when OSU did the study of Lawton the study showed that they would increase their fire
protection by reopening Station 2.
Shanklin asked if they are being challenged because they are not providing that service
because if they aren't they have too many fire fighters.
Provide more Information.
Mayor Marley said due to the time of the meeting suggested the Fire and Police budgets
be reviewed at the meeting to be held on May 20 and any other departments that can be
available at that meeting.
There was no further business and the meeting adjourned at 10:00 p.m.